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Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

theintercept.com

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Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#191

Post by matheusmoreira »

_red wrote: post #78
noir_lord wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how far they can push it before one of the larger more open distro's just goes "yep, that was far as you are going" and we end up with the Chromed Ice Weasel.

Well there is already vivaldi, iridium, and ungoogled-chromium. But a better choice, IMO, is to install Brave since they are not just removing spy-features, but enabling new ideas to incentivize support for a more privacy focused internet.

How effective is ungoogled-chromium at removing Google from the browser?

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#192

Post by 18pfsmt »

JoshMnem wrote: post #45
tapoxi wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you could just use Chromium.

Chromium has many of the same problems as Chrome. I don't think Google can be trusted to not abuse their position any more.

Have you looked at this project?

https://github.com/Eloston/ungoogled-chromium

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#194

Post by quickben »

DenisM wrote: post #165
JoshMnem wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've tried it multiple times and logging into a Google website automatically logs you into the browser itself (not just the website). Trying to clear cookies now doesn't clear Google's cookies either. Chrome 69.

Not for me it doesn't. 69 on Mac OS.

Where are you two located? I have noticed Google discriminates per location. For example creating a Gmail account from Canada isn't possible without a phone number, whereas creating one from Europe is.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#195

Post by ehsankia »

lph wrote: post #70
devoply wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fact of the matter is that there is a Chinese internet and a US internet. Going forward there will be a Chinese internet, that some authoritarian countries will adopt that are a part of the Chinese sphere of influence. American companies, and the American government through them want a foothold on that internet. This is the only way for them to do so. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/20/eric-schmidt-ex-google-ceo-p...

The idea that this appeasement will make Google a contender in China is blazingly ignorant of Chinese politics. No foreign company will ever be allowed to gain significant market share; it would be seen as a national security threat. The only way for Google would be to forge an equal partnership with a Chinese tech giant---Tencent, Alibaba, Huawei, or maybe one of the two dominant cell carriers. Google is selling out…

Ok, they will never be as huge as local companies, but what's the downside to trying? Google being there doesn't make chinese access to internet any worse. If anything, their government would have to pump in more money into the local companies to stop Google from gaining a foothold, which would be a positive for their citizens.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#196

Post by fartcannon »

blacksmith_tb wrote: post #163
apostacy wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am so saddened by how much we trust Google. I wish we regarded Google software with more suspicion. Would people have been nearly as upset if it had been Google that acquired GitHub? I miss the days of being suspicious of Microsoft. But Microsoft isn't nearly as diabolical as Google, nor are they as competent.

I'd argue MS has become less diabolical as they've become more competent (VS Code, e.g.). Google is more complex, they are certainly looking more diabolical, not quite sure about the more competent - I suppose it only matters that they are competent enough to be dangerous.

I'd argue that Microsoft is much worse, what with their utter ubiquity in corporate environments, linkedin, github and win home users. Google ruined cell phones and Microsoft ruined personal computing.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#197

Post by IBM »

bduerst wrote: post #177
IBM wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Nobody said that Apple no longer retains control of the keys. The point is that the Chinese government has access to Apple user data and Apple is complicit. The Chinese government has the exact same access to Apple user data as before, which is through Apple. Who controls the keys is what matters.

>The Chinese government has the exact same access to Apple user data as before, which is through Apple. No, the Chinese government now owns the servers with the key storage. They now have access to all the keys and user data at rest. If the Chinese government is accessing all the user data because they requested Apple to put the user keys on their now-state-owned servers, then why does it matter if Apple controls the…

>No, the Chinese government now owns the servers with the key storage. They now have access to all the keys and user data.

>If the Chinese government is accessing all the user data because they requested Apple to put the user keys on their now-state-owned servers, then why does it matter if Apple controls the keys? You're still splitting hairs.

Apple said literally the opposite of this to Reuters and in this statement to 9to5Mac [1]:

>Last year, we announced that Guizhou on the Cloud Big Data (GCBD) would become the operator of iCloud in China. As we said at the time, we’re committed to continuously improving the user experience, and our partnership with GCBD will allow us improve the speed and reliability of our iCloud services products while also complying with newly passed regulations that cloud services be operated by Chinese companies. Because of our commitment to transparency, there will be a series of customer communications over the course of the next seven weeks to make sure customers are well informed of the coming changes. Apple has strong data privacy and security protections in place and no backdoors will be created into any of our systems.

You seem to think there's some material difference by storing the keys or data in China. There isn't. China's power over Apple comes from the fact that they can block their access to operate in China. It's not technical or legal. Chinese iCloud data was just as vulnerable to requests from the Chinese government when it was stored in the US.

[1] https://9to5mac.com/2018/01/10/apple-will-begin-storing-chin...

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#198

Post by ehsankia »

quickben wrote: post #124
tomlu wrote: post #43

Disclaimer: I work for Google. I also think that there is an anti-Google bias on hacker news, holding Google to a standard not applied to others and taking any excuse to roll out the same old tired rants in response to almost any Google post (DAE Google Reader etc). If what I read is true then this is the first thing that has truly rocked my confidence that the company generally tries to do the right thing (while mak…

"I also think that there is an anti-Google bias on hacker news". Nah mate. When a company isn't paying me, I am unrestrictedly free to be objective. The problem, with companies (and with mafia, etc) starts once you take the money. So, from that perspective, what you read from most of us, is more objective than anything you read on your internal mailing lists. We, unlike your HR, don't care about morale, perception an…

So are you as critical with every other company that does business in China. Are you gonna throw out half of the products in your house which are Made In China? Are you also criticizing Apple and Tesla for doing business in China?

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#199

Post by quickben »

IBM wrote: post #175
394549 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That report doesn't say that Apple no longer retains control of the keys. Even if it does (which is unclear), do you think Apple will be able to refuse if the Chinese government asks for them? I wouldn't be surprised of "the laws and regulations of China" say that Apple is required to turn them over.

>Even if it does (which is unclear), do you think Apple will be able to refuse if the Chinese government asks for them? I wouldn't be surprised of "the laws and regulations of China" say that Apple is required to turn them over. Apple says that they respond to valid legal requests, but that isn't any different than when iCloud data was stored in the US. If you thought that Apple would cave to any request for data fro…

Thinking that China doesn't have physical access to servers located on China (with all apple keys on it) is just not how real world works.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#200

Post by joering2 »

Let's forget childish arguments of who will do what to punish Google. Noone will do anything; Congress in US is unable to call in top execs to answer questions, meanwhile EU $5B penalty is a slap on GOOG wrist. They may as well start a child kidnapping ring tomorrow and it would take years before any LE would get to the bottom of this in such huge corp.

Users won't stop using Google because its good enough. Advertisers won't stop paying for AdWords because these yield good enough results. But Google purpose is not finding information; it is rather to search thru a huge mess (that loosely organized internet is) and find info to a good enough extent. So other than Duck Duck Go, who is working on search and what other alternatives do we have today, and will have in the near future, please?

Anyone?

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