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Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

theintercept.com

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Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#261

Post by g00g3lethrow »

prepend wrote: post #88

I guess we’ll get a new blog post from Pichai about the people he fired because tracking users against their wishes, exposing data against their wishes, and compelling employees to delete their own files “contrary to our basic values and our Code of Conduct.” [0] Fortunately Google is an ethical company and not hypocritical when it comes to very important issues. Maybe this will be positive and result in new US law l…

I don't think Sundar is going to have the same response as to Project Maven. It would be hypocritical because he was involved in this project from the beginning. Project Maven, on the other hand, he probably only learned about because of the controversy.

My prediction is that he is going to sick with his version that this was an experiment, the headcount was necessary to fully explore the idea, it became obvious that it wasn't possible to do ethically, Google isn't going to do it.

The real question to me is what this is going to do to Google's internal transparency.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#262

Post by pmontra »

zachberger wrote: post #213
snr wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"The new version of Chrome signs you into the browser even if you don't want to sign into the software itself" Damn. I just realized that. Signing out of browser signs you out of GMail. And signing into GMail signs you into the browser. Went to download Edge but turns out it's not on Win Server. MSFT really needs to get its act together.

Out of curiosity why are you using a web browser on a server?

I used one yesterday on Windows Server 2016 Datacenter because the new version of the only application running there needed .NET 4.7.2. It started IE which after a long sequence of allowing web sites (tracking and not, included Google Analytics) eventually managed to download the installer. IE was already on the server. I really wanted to install Firefox to avoid all that absurdity of whitelisting sites.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#263

Post by angersock »

SquareWheel wrote: post #254
angersock wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If what I read is true then this is the first thing that has truly rocked my confidence that the company generally tries to do the right thing Officially removing "Don't be evil" wasn't enough of a hint for you?

Please don't spread misinformation. https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct.html

https://www.fastcompany.com/3056389/why-google-was-smart-to-...

Not really misinformation, thanks for sticking up for a helpless company though.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#264

Post by pymai »

JoshMnem wrote: post #45
tapoxi wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you could just use Chromium.

Chromium has many of the same problems as Chrome. I don't think Google can be trusted to not abuse their position any more.

there are other chromium based browsers like vivaldi and brave that might disable a lot of the google crap but i couldn't be certain of the top of my head

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#265

Post by g00g3lethrow »

quickben wrote: post #124
tomlu wrote: post #43

Disclaimer: I work for Google. I also think that there is an anti-Google bias on hacker news, holding Google to a standard not applied to others and taking any excuse to roll out the same old tired rants in response to almost any Google post (DAE Google Reader etc). If what I read is true then this is the first thing that has truly rocked my confidence that the company generally tries to do the right thing (while mak…

"I also think that there is an anti-Google bias on hacker news". Nah mate. When a company isn't paying me, I am unrestrictedly free to be objective. The problem, with companies (and with mafia, etc) starts once you take the money. So, from that perspective, what you read from most of us, is more objective than anything you read on your internal mailing lists. We, unlike your HR, don't care about morale, perception an…

A couple of months ago there was a post on the frontpage about some Google service being redesign. All the top comments about it found some non-obvious negative spin on it. That was the time when it became obvious to me how strong the anti-Google sentiment had become at HN.

Look no further than this page. The top comment compares the Chinese Government's surveillance with being forced to sign into Chrome. There would have been a lot more interesting intellectual discussions to be had about this topic: China, corporate responsibility, are the Chinese better off with just Baidu...

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#266

Post by cromwellian »

IBM wrote: post #214
cromwellian wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China goes so far as to require Android users to install a surveillance app in some provinces ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jingwang_Weishi ) so you think the Chinese government would really allow the sale of unbreakable end to end encryption domestically just because it's Apple? What would be the point then, as anyone wanting to avoid Chinese surveillance could just buy an iPhone. They wouldn't go through huge, im…

>so you think the Chinese government would really allow the sale of unbreakable end to end encryption domestically just because it's Apple? Yes. Apple has even said this in court filings during the FBI legal fight [1]: >Finally, the government attempts to disclaim the obvious international implications of its demand, asserting that any pressure to hand over the same software to foreign agents “flows from [Apple’s] de…

>Apple has leverage....

Yes, so much leverage that China regularly forces them to censor the App Store, and forced them to give up control of iCloud in China.

Quite different than say, how Apple handled the FBI demands or AT&T?

What concessions did Apple extract from China with respect to freedom or privacy for the Chinese people that you can point to?

Have they ever gotten VPN reinstated? Can you point to a single instance of Apple even petitioning against the government in Chinese courts?

I’ll go one better: can you find an instance on record of Apple executives like Tim Cook criticizing Chinese government policies like they do the US government? Any instance of push back at all?

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#267

Post by Grue3 »

wrs wrote: post #21

Ouch. It must be really fun for Googlers to hear their company is working so hard to repress dissidents trying to reveal its secret project to help China repress dissidents.

I dunno, they seemed to be more angry about the Pentagon contract.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#268

Post by g00g3lethrow »

tomlu wrote: post #43

Disclaimer: I work for Google. I also think that there is an anti-Google bias on hacker news, holding Google to a standard not applied to others and taking any excuse to roll out the same old tired rants in response to almost any Google post (DAE Google Reader etc). If what I read is true then this is the first thing that has truly rocked my confidence that the company generally tries to do the right thing (while mak…

It's true. The google group in question is still active and visible to any Google employee.

However, you should put this in perspective. Google is still one of the most transparent companies of its size. People intentionally collected and shared high sensitive company information. At most companies, security would show up at the desk of everyone involved in this with a box to pack their stuff. At Google, they got an email which asked them to delete the document.

Also, keep in mind that we are talking about a project that is not launched, probably never will be and, if you give Google's leadership the benefit of the doubt, was never going to be.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#269

Post by SquareWheel »

angersock wrote: post #263
SquareWheel wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't spread misinformation. https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct.html

https://www.fastcompany.com/3056389/why-google-was-smart-to-... Not really misinformation, thanks for sticking up for a helpless company though.

If a literal link to their code of conduct with the motto in tact isn't enough to convince you, then I don't see what will. You're free to keep spreading misinformation as you please.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#270

Post by echevil »

SuperNinKenDo wrote: post #247
echevil wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does seem there’s little difference from what they’re trying to do in China then.

There's a massive difference. Complying with subpoenas is not the same as giving the government on-tap access to all data at their leisure. And for all the US's problems, the rule of law and respect for the rights of citizen's and responsibilities of the state toward them in the administration of justice is leaps and bounds better and more transparent in the United States.

if you say so..
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