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Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

theintercept.com

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Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#251

Post by justtopost »

bduerst wrote: post #174
getpost wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does turning it off stop the data collection, or just remove it from view?

>You can use your Activity controls to choose what kinds of activity are saved to your Google Account. These settings apply on all devices that are signed in to your account. You can change these settings and view or delete your saved activity at any time. https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/6139018

>YOUR Google Account (emphasis mine).

This says nothing of internal tracking, and the data is certainly being sent to multiple google services.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#252

Post by IAmGraydon »

jaclaz wrote: post #10

>Emails demanding deletion of the memo contained “pixel trackers” that notified human resource managers when their messages had been read, recipients determined. This seems like the worst part (not that the rest is not bad), anyone has an idea of what this "pixel trackers" are and how they actually work?

Worse than knowing they had been read is that fact that it can (and was probably intended to) detect who may have leaked the email if it made it to the outside, who is was leaked to, and how far it had spread.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#253

Post by AnthonyMouse »

deegles wrote: post #215
blacksmith_tb wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue MS has become less diabolical as they've become more competent (VS Code, e.g.). Google is more complex, they are certainly looking more diabolical, not quite sure about the more competent - I suppose it only matters that they are competent enough to be dangerous.

That's because Microsoft's incentives are more aligned with ours. Better, more user-centric software == better outcomes for users, more Microsoft usage/profits. Google, on the other hand, is fundamentally incentivized to sell ads, which requires collecting data. The more data they collect, the more money they make. As the saying goes, we are the product. No amount of hand-wringing or shaming is going to change that f…

> That's because Microsoft's incentives are more aligned with ours. Better, more user-centric software == better outcomes for users, more Microsoft usage/profits.

Microsoft is in the same business as Google. Search, Bing. Gmail, Outlook.com. GCP, Azure. They even operate an ad network.

Google has some bad incentives but Microsoft has all the same ones. If not, why isn't there a single button for "never send any of my personal information to Microsoft" anywhere in Windows 10?

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#254

Post by SquareWheel »

angersock wrote: post #60
tomlu wrote: post #43

Disclaimer: I work for Google. I also think that there is an anti-Google bias on hacker news, holding Google to a standard not applied to others and taking any excuse to roll out the same old tired rants in response to almost any Google post (DAE Google Reader etc). If what I read is true then this is the first thing that has truly rocked my confidence that the company generally tries to do the right thing (while mak…

> If what I read is true then this is the first thing that has truly rocked my confidence that the company generally tries to do the right thing Officially removing "Don't be evil" wasn't enough of a hint for you?

Please don't spread misinformation.

https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct.html

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#255

Post by derf_ »

mtgx wrote: post #25
tareqak wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft and Bing never started with the mantra of "Don't be evil". Microsoft also has a much more established history of working with different government agencies and foreign governments. The perceived contrast from what people expect from Google and what Google is doing now is just that much more glaring/obvious.

And that is part of the reason why Microsoft has been hated/less trusted than Google for so long (and still is). Google is making a very big mistake ruining this image and supposedly core principles with the actions it's been taking in the past couple of years. They won't recover for decades from this, just like Microsoft still hasn't fully. Google's "Don't be evil" has been a huge branding asset, but it seems Google…

> support governmental action against the company (GDPR, etc)

The GDPR is a hugely pro-Google law. Large corporations can easily afford to wade through its complexity to find ways to comply that do not have a meaningful impact on profits, up to and including getting the law changed, if necessary, ideally by making it more complex.

Their smaller competitors can't.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#256

Post by eklavya »

wilsonnb3 wrote: post #243
TangoTrotFox wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is cognitive dissonance. You can create rationalizations for the worst of actions, and that's exactly what this is. The motivation is simply money and growth. China is a huge market that may, in the future, become the single most lucrative market in the world. They want in on this and are willing to toss any values they may have once held to pursue the profit and power potential of this market.

Perhaps they are playing the long game. Actions against their values taken now will give them more power to act in line with their values in the future.

Sure, that must be it.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#257

Post by throwaway2048 »

Aunche wrote: post #185
pcwalton wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, sorry, you can't evade moral culpability like that. Congress was correct to call Yahoo's actions regarding Shi Tao "inexcusably negligent behavior at best, and deliberately deceptive behavior at worst".

Dragonfly is about as far removed from Shi Tao as your Chinese import purchases. And since when has Congress having a vocal opinion on anything ever been anything but pandering to their voters?

Having a plan to directly feed the Chinese search and user data is very far from "removed".

Why do they have that plan? Because there is absolutely zero chance china would allow them to operate without it.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#258

Post by throwaway2048 »

skybrian wrote: post #156
pcwalton wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I readily acknowledge that it is perfectly legal to aid the PRC in imprisoning and torturing dissidents.

You keep making these arguments using hyperbolic examples that have little or nothing to do with what Google might (depending on how the internal politics work out) end up launching. Predicting the future is tricky, particularly when it involves the decisions of complicated political processes where the decision-makers (most likely) disagree. Plans often change. We can't possibly know what they're going to do. Maybe…

Do you really think PRC torturing and imprisoning dissidents is hyperbole? Really?

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#259

Post by Alterlife »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #253
deegles wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because Microsoft's incentives are more aligned with ours. Better, more user-centric software == better outcomes for users, more Microsoft usage/profits. Google, on the other hand, is fundamentally incentivized to sell ads, which requires collecting data. The more data they collect, the more money they make. As the saying goes, we are the product. No amount of hand-wringing or shaming is going to change that f…

> That's because Microsoft's incentives are more aligned with ours. Better, more user-centric software == better outcomes for users, more Microsoft usage/profits. Microsoft is in the same business as Google. Search, Bing. Gmail, Outlook.com. GCP, Azure. They even operate an ad network. Google has some bad incentives but Microsoft has all the same ones. If not, why isn't there a single button for "never send any of my…

In the meantime, Apple builds walled-garden devices with limited functionality so that users are forced to buy several devices.

It's unfortunate that every large vendor today has short-term incentives to screw users.

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