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Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

theintercept.com

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Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#91

Post by bduerst »

devoply wrote: post #36
wrs wrote: post #21

Ouch. It must be really fun for Googlers to hear their company is working so hard to repress dissidents trying to reveal its secret project to help China repress dissidents.

Fact of the matter is that there is a Chinese internet and a US internet. Going forward there will be a Chinese internet, that some authoritarian countries will adopt that are a part of the Chinese sphere of influence. American companies, and the American government through them want a foothold on that internet. This is the only way for them to do so. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/20/eric-schmidt-ex-google-ceo-p...

Aren't you also forgetting the EU internet?

With GDPR and the "right to be forgotten" censorship?

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#92

Post by prepend »

jbigelow76 wrote: post #40
JoshMnem wrote: post #34

> "The Dragonfly memo reveals that a prototype of the censored search engine was being developed as an app for both Android and iOS devices, and would force users to sign in so they could use the service. The memo confirms, as The Intercept first reported last week, that users’ searches would be associated with their personal phone number. The memo adds that Chinese users’ movements would also be stored, along with t…

You can't really use Google's browsing device (Google Chrome) without providing your identity, if you ever want to sign into a Google website. That makes total sense. Google is in the business of selling ads, this requires getting as much information as possible on users, through any means possible, software downloads, online services, it's all the same in the end.

Google makes money off ads through Firefox, ie, and safari. Requiring absolute browsing data on all users goes above and beyond just meeting their bottom line.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#93

Post by echevil »

nradov wrote: post #68
devoply wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fact of the matter is that there is a Chinese internet and a US internet. Going forward there will be a Chinese internet, that some authoritarian countries will adopt that are a part of the Chinese sphere of influence. American companies, and the American government through them want a foothold on that internet. This is the only way for them to do so. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/20/eric-schmidt-ex-google-ceo-p...

Are you certain that's the only way for them to do so? I suspect that smart people could find effective technical means to undermine and circumvent the Great Firewall of China.

It’s not that hard to circumvent actually. Also in major tech companies in China, employees can just use company network to access websites blocked by the firewall. But if you provide that as a service to general public, it’d get shutdown when it get popular

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#94

Post by bduerst »

2600 wrote: post #90
thisgoodlife wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's bs. Apple is making billions from China each year without any bs partnership.

Regarding iCloud, Apple has made decisions to bring Chinese iCloud in compliance with Chinese regulations. Chinese iCloud accounts, data, and encryption keys are stored with a Chinese firm overseen by the Chinese government.

Yep. Apple moved their keys to be stored locally on state-owned servers, meaning that Apple has given the Chinese government access to Chinese user data. Apple even updated their TOS for it.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#95

Post by JoshMnem »

jbigelow76 wrote: post #40
JoshMnem wrote: post #34

> "The Dragonfly memo reveals that a prototype of the censored search engine was being developed as an app for both Android and iOS devices, and would force users to sign in so they could use the service. The memo confirms, as The Intercept first reported last week, that users’ searches would be associated with their personal phone number. The memo adds that Chinese users’ movements would also be stored, along with t…

You can't really use Google's browsing device (Google Chrome) without providing your identity, if you ever want to sign into a Google website. That makes total sense. Google is in the business of selling ads, this requires getting as much information as possible on users, through any means possible, software downloads, online services, it's all the same in the end.

I'm not sure if you are defending their abuse of users or just stating the reasons why they do it.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#97

Post by JoshMnem »

_red wrote: post #78
noir_lord wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how far they can push it before one of the larger more open distro's just goes "yep, that was far as you are going" and we end up with the Chromed Ice Weasel.

Well there is already vivaldi, iridium, and ungoogled-chromium. But a better choice, IMO, is to install Brave since they are not just removing spy-features, but enabling new ideas to incentivize support for a more privacy focused internet.

The ad model is fundamentally broken, because all roads there eventually lead to tracking and online garbage. Monocultures are bad, so I don't think people should only use Chrome-based browsers. Google once tried to do ads without going down the wrong path, but that clearly hasn't worked out.

I think that Firefox Quantum is a better alternative.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#98

Post by [deleted] »

tomlu wrote: post #43

Disclaimer: I work for Google. I also think that there is an anti-Google bias on hacker news, holding Google to a standard not applied to others and taking any excuse to roll out the same old tired rants in response to almost any Google post (DAE Google Reader etc). If what I read is true then this is the first thing that has truly rocked my confidence that the company generally tries to do the right thing (while mak…

[deleted]

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#99

Post by eastendguy »

thisgoodlife wrote: post #75
lph wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that this appeasement will make Google a contender in China is blazingly ignorant of Chinese politics. No foreign company will ever be allowed to gain significant market share; it would be seen as a national security threat. The only way for Google would be to forge an equal partnership with a Chinese tech giant---Tencent, Alibaba, Huawei, or maybe one of the two dominant cell carriers. Google is selling out…

That's bs. Apple is making billions from China each year without any bs partnership.

That is because Chinese manufactures still need Apple and Foxconn, iPhones are made (assembled) in China. Once that changes (i. e. in a few years) watch how new regulations will destroy or at least reduce the iPhone business.
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