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How Ninja become gaming's first crossover star

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Re: How Ninja become gaming's first crossover star

#41

Post by adnzzzzZ »

RussianCow wrote: post #39
adnzzzzZ wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean that the abuse controls prevent me from having a good time because they're too tight. For instance, the Overwatch developers prevented people from saying "gg ez" at the end of a match because they deemed it too abusive. This kind of view towards abuse is too extreme to me and eventually sapped my will to play that particular game.

The fact that not being able to say "gg ez" sapped your will to play a game is part of the problem, isn't it? What happened to getting enjoyment from, you know, actually playing the game, rather than the pointless shit-talking that literally no one else benefits from?

It's not your place to tell me how to enjoy the game. It shouldn't be the developer's place either. This is one thing Valve understands really well and it's why I like them a lot.

This image explains part of the problem when it comes to matchmaking, but it applies to other aspects of the game. https://i.imgur.com/0OA7fIt.png Companies like Valve understand that the best way for them to exist is to be a neutral platform that has some very basic rules, but then groups of people come together and create their own servers with more appropriate rules for that group. Some servers will have harsh moderation, some will have nearly none, others will be somewhere in between. Individuals can then find the servers they like best and everyone is happy.

Companies like Blizzard don't understand this and so they push for the view that they think will make the most people happy (at the expense of others), which is to prevent people from acting in ways that they deem are abusive. I disagree with what they think is abusive and so I'll just stop playing their game since they don't want me there.

Re: How Ninja become gaming's first crossover star

#42

Post by ben_jones »

baxtr wrote: post #24

Every day, people tune in by the hundreds of thousands to watch him play, and he's making bank doing it. The most commonly reported figure is $500,000 a month. Blevins suggests the number is closer to seven figures. And then later: "Until my family is taken care of. Say this ends tomorrow, we don't have enough for the rest of our lives. I tell Jess, 'Honey, we're not going to have that much quality time this year, or…

Agreed. Engaging in a very demanding, sensory over-loaded, massively toxic, environment for ten hours a day is enough to make anyone mad.

As to WHY he has to stream so much I believe its two-fold, if he takes his foot off the gas he's afraid he'll lose his audience as has happened to many other streamers. Two, you form the habits to play 10 hours of video games a day it becomes a sort of addiction where the happiness your derive in life partly belongs to those 10 hours.

Re: How Ninja become gaming's first crossover star

#43

Post by roel_v »

bschwindHN wrote: post #37
dangeh wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The top competitor in a supposedly open competitive field is refusing to compete with [blank] players for fear of [blank]. So what, exactly, does that look like? Here's an easier experiment: play out a scenario to the extreme: When the #2 spot is held by a female gamer, his refusal to play with female players is exactly what you claim it's not. By refusing to play she will never get the chance to compete for the "top…

> The top competitor in a supposedly open competitive field is refusing to compete with [blank] players for fear of [blank] He's not refusing to compete with women. He's refusing to do two-person co-operative streams with them to reduce the amount of rumors and garbage that terrible people on the internet will create about him. > When the #2 spot is held by a female gamer, his refusal to play with female players is e…

Well the question is interesting when you look at the legal aspect instead of the 'I feel' aspect. If he deliberately refuses to play with some people based on a protected trait, it might be illegal. This seems like a much less clear cut case than e.g. having women and men basketball leagues. Your claim of 'freedom' doesn't (always) hold, you're not allowed (everywhere) to discriminate in all cases because of 'freedom'.

Re: How Ninja become gaming's first crossover star

#44

Post by roel_v »

hnzix wrote: post #15
tbiwiti wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting to stream with Ninja would have a large, direct effect on their income, not to mention the promotional aspect. But sure, lets instead imagine a male-only social club that directly promotes the business and career interests of it's members. That would get shut down real fast.

If a pro tennis player declined to play in mixed doubles to shield their spouse from paparazzi gossip, would you call them sexist?

What Joe Random would call them isn't so interesting, but the legal question is (can be, I haven't had my coffee yet...)

Re: How Ninja become gaming's first crossover star

#45

Post by roel_v »

thecatspaw wrote: post #21
tbiwiti wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting to stream with Ninja would have a large, direct effect on their income, not to mention the promotional aspect. But sure, lets instead imagine a male-only social club that directly promotes the business and career interests of it's members. That would get shut down real fast.

I(male) cannot play with ninja either

Time to raise up against The Man who is holding you down, my friend.

Re: How Ninja become gaming's first crossover star

#46

Post by BLKNSLVR »

thecatspaw wrote: post #33
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not seeing any "have to" in any of this anywhere, except in the woe-is-me voluntary victim handbook.

He has to play fortnite just like we have to go to our jobs. Sure, we can just not show up anymore, but that will loose you your income. Of course, he has a bit more flexibility, but so does an employee who yields the company a million each month, and takes home half of that.

"a bit more flexibility" and "half a million take-home per month" aren't in the same ball park (to paraphrase Pulp Fiction: it ain't even the same sport)

Apologies if I'm coming off as offensive or patronising, but I really truly cannot see what there could possibly be to complain about that isn't entirely within their control to change.

I think there's a bigger picture that you might not be stepping back far enough to look at.

Re: How Ninja become gaming's first crossover star

#47

Post by ndh2 »

woolvalley wrote: post #40
baxtr wrote: post #24

Every day, people tune in by the hundreds of thousands to watch him play, and he's making bank doing it. The most commonly reported figure is $500,000 a month. Blevins suggests the number is closer to seven figures. And then later: "Until my family is taken care of. Say this ends tomorrow, we don't have enough for the rest of our lives. I tell Jess, 'Honey, we're not going to have that much quality time this year, or…

It's pretty god damn smart, work hard for 10 years and have generational wealth for the rest of your god damn life. He knows that this was a lucky break of fame, and as celebrities rise and fall with fads. It's way better than most startups.

There's got to be some boundary, though. The guy streams every single day. Doesn't even take one weekday off. That's not healthy.

Re: How Ninja become gaming's first crossover star

#48

Post by thecatspaw »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #46
thecatspaw wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He has to play fortnite just like we have to go to our jobs. Sure, we can just not show up anymore, but that will loose you your income. Of course, he has a bit more flexibility, but so does an employee who yields the company a million each month, and takes home half of that.

"a bit more flexibility" and "half a million take-home per month" aren't in the same ball park (to paraphrase Pulp Fiction: it ain't even the same sport) Apologies if I'm coming off as offensive or patronising, but I really truly cannot see what there could possibly be to complain about that isn't entirely within their control to change. I think there's a bigger picture that you might not be stepping back far enough…

What I tried to say was, if you have an employee who yields you half a million each month, you're probably not gonna fire him if he says "hey im gonna take off tomorrow".

But yes, they obviously can just not stream for a single day, but it costs him. According to the article, not streaming a day looses him 15,000 subs (assuming the default cut of 50% of 5$) thats 37k lost, per day, and it adds up.

Ninja seems to be aware that his stream wont live forever, that his fame is on a timer, like anyone on the internet. So he's trying to save up as much money as he can, to support his family after his fame dies down.

Lets be generous and assume $200k spent per year for rent/mortage, food and all that fun stuff. A day streaming means he has 2 months less buffer, before his money would run out. 4 Months, if you're spending 100k a year.

Choosing between 1 day of work, and 4 months of work, seems pretty easy to me, even if that single day sucks.

Re: How Ninja become gaming's first crossover star

#50

Post by dangeh »

bschwindHN wrote: post #37
dangeh wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The top competitor in a supposedly open competitive field is refusing to compete with [blank] players for fear of [blank]. So what, exactly, does that look like? Here's an easier experiment: play out a scenario to the extreme: When the #2 spot is held by a female gamer, his refusal to play with female players is exactly what you claim it's not. By refusing to play she will never get the chance to compete for the "top…

> The top competitor in a supposedly open competitive field is refusing to compete with [blank] players for fear of [blank] He's not refusing to compete with women. He's refusing to do two-person co-operative streams with them to reduce the amount of rumors and garbage that terrible people on the internet will create about him. > When the #2 spot is held by a female gamer, his refusal to play with female players is e…

TLDR;

Ad Hominem - doesn't do anything here.

If one has a problem with harassment, then rationally one attacks the problem (harassment)...not the victim (women). Then there's Ninja...

>You can criticize him for it all you want, that's your freedom to do so "freedom" is an interesting word choice, given the whole problem we're discussing

Are you a gamer? Can you explain how gaming with girls works or doesn't work the point of excluding them? I've watched some streams, not a ton. Not my cup of tea - but some kids I know are obsessed.

More importantly does Ninja "streaming" with a random player, give that player massive exposure & potential opportunity?

>None of this makes any sense...

Just clarifying: using absolute conditions is a common way to wash out the noise/distortion to get to the crux of the issue - it's meant to over simplify. It's helpful in highlighting the implications of the action in question. So to make sense of this - i think - swap "compete" with "stream" with "opportunity." And the implications remain the same.

>Did you even read his own justifications for his choices? I suspect not as you created a throwaway account so you could get angry about something and spout nonsense without repercussions.

Yep, a lot. Read quite a few articles trying to sift out the hyperbole, learn about his history and backstory. Btw, attacking me is possible sign you are confused or defending something you don't know how to defend. I'm not upset with you, unless you did something that was offensive - then I might be offended.

It doesn't help prove how Ninja's actions are helpful to a "community." Taking such a position - when in power - has ramifications (direct and indirect). I'm actually more concerned about the indirect - which is highlighted by responses like yours.

PS I haven't been on HN in a while (ie lost my login)...karma still works just fine though. Sooo...I'm ok if you're ok.

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