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How Ninja become gaming's first crossover star

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Re: How Ninja become gaming's first crossover star

#31

Post by thecatspaw »

adnzzzzZ wrote: post #17
drb91 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A) I’m not sure how geography plays into this. Perhaps you were making a cultural claim? B) You only need to take the issue as seriously as you take gaming. However, for the companies involved, figuring out what is preventing >50% of their potential market from engaging is a serious, valuable problem. FWIW one of the main reasons my (woman) SO plays overwatch is that the abuse controls tend to yield tangible results.

The problem is not as clear cut as you make it out to be. For instance, I stopped playing Overwatch because the abuse controls you mention got in the way of me having a good time with the game. So while some people may come in as you try to "control" the community, others will leave. As for geography, I'm from Brazil. It's been my experience that people from 3rd world countries tend to have a thicker skin when it com…

what abuse control has stopped you from having a good time? Do you feel that it was over-controlled? Did you take offense by beeing controlled at all? Have you been reprimanded due to those controls?

Re: How Ninja become gaming's first crossover star

#32

Post by cglace »

drb91 wrote: post #26
eksemplar wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since when is the worlds 9th largest economy third world?

I always thought it aligned with cold war alliances, in which case brazil would be third world. Not a terribly meaningful phrase on the whole.... china’s doing well these days, but you’re only going to feel that if you happen to be in the middle or upper class, for example.

China is a second world country by definition.

Re: How Ninja become gaming's first crossover star

#33

Post by thecatspaw »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #19
sky_rw wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heaven is being able to play fortnite every day. Hell is _having_ to play fornite every single day.

I'm not seeing any "have to" in any of this anywhere, except in the woe-is-me voluntary victim handbook.

He has to play fortnite just like we have to go to our jobs. Sure, we can just not show up anymore, but that will loose you your income.

Of course, he has a bit more flexibility, but so does an employee who yields the company a million each month, and takes home half of that.

Re: How Ninja become gaming's first crossover star

#34

Post by adnzzzzZ »

drb91 wrote: post #25
adnzzzzZ wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not as clear cut as you make it out to be. For instance, I stopped playing Overwatch because the abuse controls you mention got in the way of me having a good time with the game. So while some people may come in as you try to "control" the community, others will leave. As for geography, I'm from Brazil. It's been my experience that people from 3rd world countries tend to have a thicker skin when it com…

This seems contradictory. People from third world countries have a thicker skin but don’t play games because the abuse controls aren’t strong enough? I can understand some part of this. Shit talking is not automatically abusive. But if you’re playing, and someone says “bitch you suck stop playing” repeatedly, I really can’t blame you for not playing anymore. This is not as cultural as it is psychological IMHO: if you…

I mean that the abuse controls prevent me from having a good time because they're too tight. For instance, the Overwatch developers prevented people from saying "gg ez" at the end of a match because they deemed it too abusive. This kind of view towards abuse is too extreme to me and eventually sapped my will to play that particular game.

Re: How Ninja become gaming's first crossover star

#35

Post by User23 »

muglug wrote: post #18
curiousgal wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a woman living in the Third World I will never take the "issue" of women and gaming seriously.

Nobody's asking you to take abuse of women in multiplayer games seriously - at least not you personally. People don't ask people who've just had a heart attack to take food poisoning seriously. But food poisoning still deserves the attention of people who can afford to care.

Everyone gets "abused" in games. Bantzing, shit talking, or whatever you want to call it is a component of every competitive endeavor, from basketball to chess. The anonymity of online interactions and lack of immediate concrete behavioral correction exacerbates this tendency in online games.

I, like all reasonable people, welcome women who want to play in these waters. The argument can be made that women deserve extra sensitivity, because they are more emotionally fragile and less able to handle shit talking, but that strikes me as incredibly sexist so I don't hold that belief.

Re: How Ninja become gaming's first crossover star

#36

Post by adnzzzzZ »

thecatspaw wrote: post #31
adnzzzzZ wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not as clear cut as you make it out to be. For instance, I stopped playing Overwatch because the abuse controls you mention got in the way of me having a good time with the game. So while some people may come in as you try to "control" the community, others will leave. As for geography, I'm from Brazil. It's been my experience that people from 3rd world countries tend to have a thicker skin when it com…

what abuse control has stopped you from having a good time? Do you feel that it was over-controlled? Did you take offense by beeing controlled at all? Have you been reprimanded due to those controls?

>what abuse control has stopped you from having a good time?

The Overwatch developers ranged from preventing people from saying "gg ez" at the end of a match to saying that they would scour people's social media accounts and ban them from the game if they deemed it the right move. Just way too many instances where they signaled that they were very ban happy and that they deemed all sorts of things that I think are normal as abuse or harassment.

>Do you feel that it was over-controlled?

Yes.

>Did you take offense by beeing controlled at all?

Yes. I don't like an environment where I can get banned if someone doesn't like my trash talk. It goes further than that though because these kinds of signals from developers shape the way the community behaves and expects other people to behave and IMO this particular direction is one I'm always unhappy with. Contrast this to the way Valve handles their communities which is very hands off. I prefer that a lot more to the way Blizzard generally does it.

> Have you been reprimanded due to those controls?

No.

Re: How Ninja become gaming's first crossover star

#37

Post by bschwindHN »

dangeh wrote: post #30
Bizarro wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a dumb analogy and bordering on being disingenuous. He's not barring women from something...you know that. And the people that he plays with are not his employees. You know that too.

The top competitor in a supposedly open competitive field is refusing to compete with [blank] players for fear of [blank]. So what, exactly, does that look like? Here's an easier experiment: play out a scenario to the extreme: When the #2 spot is held by a female gamer, his refusal to play with female players is exactly what you claim it's not. By refusing to play she will never get the chance to compete for the "top…

> The top competitor in a supposedly open competitive field is refusing to compete with [blank] players for fear of [blank]

He's not refusing to compete with women. He's refusing to do two-person co-operative streams with them to reduce the amount of rumors and garbage that terrible people on the internet will create about him.

> When the #2 spot is held by a female gamer, his refusal to play with female players is exactly what you claim it's not. By refusing to play she will never get the chance to compete for the "top" spot. Then sequentially every other player that is not "a her" will get a chance to "win."

None of this makes any sense, you don't know what you're talking about. Have you ever played Fortnite or watched a stream? Did you even read his own justifications for his choices? I suspect not as you created a throwaway account so you could get angry about something and spout nonsense without repercussions.

To be clear, the gaming community in general is shitty to women, this is known. And it would be great if Ninja supported _everyone_ who wants to stream with him. But you can't just force another individual to have your viewpoints and do what _you_ want. You can criticize him for it all you want, that's your freedom to do so, just as he is free to choose who he plays video games with.

Re: How Ninja become gaming's first crossover star

#38

Post by eksemplar »

cglace wrote: post #29
eksemplar wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since when is the worlds 9th largest economy third world?

Third world does not have to do with the size of the economy. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World

You should read what you post, it was coined doing the Cold War but it had to do with developing countries and their economy back when influence was king.

The Cold War ended 20 years ago though, and since then the term started to mean “poor/backwards” countries.

Now in the case if Brazil, you’re post-industrialized country with the worlds 9th largest economy.

You simply don’t fit any definition of the “third world”.

Re: How Ninja become gaming's first crossover star

#39

Post by RussianCow »

adnzzzzZ wrote: post #34
drb91 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems contradictory. People from third world countries have a thicker skin but don’t play games because the abuse controls aren’t strong enough? I can understand some part of this. Shit talking is not automatically abusive. But if you’re playing, and someone says “bitch you suck stop playing” repeatedly, I really can’t blame you for not playing anymore. This is not as cultural as it is psychological IMHO: if you…

I mean that the abuse controls prevent me from having a good time because they're too tight. For instance, the Overwatch developers prevented people from saying "gg ez" at the end of a match because they deemed it too abusive. This kind of view towards abuse is too extreme to me and eventually sapped my will to play that particular game.

The fact that not being able to say "gg ez" sapped your will to play a game is part of the problem, isn't it? What happened to getting enjoyment from, you know, actually playing the game, rather than the pointless shit-talking that literally no one else benefits from?

Re: How Ninja become gaming's first crossover star

#40

Post by woolvalley »

baxtr wrote: post #24

Every day, people tune in by the hundreds of thousands to watch him play, and he's making bank doing it. The most commonly reported figure is $500,000 a month. Blevins suggests the number is closer to seven figures. And then later: "Until my family is taken care of. Say this ends tomorrow, we don't have enough for the rest of our lives. I tell Jess, 'Honey, we're not going to have that much quality time this year, or…

It's pretty god damn smart, work hard for 10 years and have generational wealth for the rest of your god damn life. He knows that this was a lucky break of fame, and as celebrities rise and fall with fads.

It's way better than most startups.

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