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FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

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Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#141

Post by Obi_Juan_Kenobi »

okmokmz wrote: post #119
fabricexpert wrote: post #75

In this case the punter must have known it was an error, so it doesn't seem moral to pick up the 82k. Somehow everyone else seems to think otherwise, so maybe I'm just a sucker.

>In this case the punter must have known it was an error, so it doesn't seem moral to pick up the 82k. If we lived in a world where companies did their best to be reasonable and fair to customers, particularly when mistakes occur, I would agree. However, considering most companies are quite hostile and willing to use any advantage they may have to maximize profits or minimize costs at the expense of customers I belie…

That's a bunch of generalities, though; are the specific accusations about fanduel or records of them benefiting from mistakes like this?

"Well, they probably took advantage of people" isn't a very good argument.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#142

Post by bsder »

Arzh wrote: post #27
DannyBee wrote: post #14

Yeah, a quick read of the relevant regs tells me Fanduel is gonna lose this one (Unless i've missed something)[1,2] The law on this is pretty clear, and they can't unilaterally decide not to apply the gaming regulations of the state, or change them through their contracts. (They can decide not to do business in states they don't like the regulations of course) BTW, somewhat hilariously, the part they "..."'d is just…

Good reply, I'm wondering they they will try to tie it to how slot machines handle errors ("All errors void play") which just payback the bet but don't payout.

Setting the odds incorrectly isn't considered to be an "error".

If your slot machine is supposed to pay out 1000:1 and you set it for 1:1000, sucks to be you, but it isn't an "error".

Actually: I apparently stand corrected. The situation generally gets investigated by the state board who works out the appropriate remedy.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#143

Post by emodendroket »

hailmike wrote: post #70

It's a nice reminder to stay away from the gambling industry. Any company that doesn't play by the same rules as you, doesn't deserve your business. Try voiding a bet you made due to your algorithm error once. I'm sure they would just laugh.

> Any company that doesn't play by the same rules as you, doesn't deserve your business.

Which companies do play by the same rules as you? I can't think of any time I've been able to compel a company to use an arbiter of my choosing for any disputes.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#144

Post by emodendroket »

stanleydrew wrote: post #59
zacharycohn wrote: post #32

This is why smart contracts aren't nearly as good as people make them out to be.

I don't quite follow. Are you suggesting that because there can be errors or misunderstandings in all contracts, the non-smart variety is preferable since they allow for human intervention when there's a dispute?

Yes, that's the usual argument against "smart" contracts.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#145

Post by ddingus »

TwitchySeal wrote: post #25
ddingus wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. What they could do is pay this guy off, then follow the good press for a very likely net gain.

Except then they have to pay out every other time there's a bug.

No risk, no reward.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#146

Post by ddingus »

tomtheelder wrote: post #54
heavymark wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine if they had to honor, they would make it priority number one resolving those bugs, and make changes to make the bugs more apparent to people in the process. If they don't have to pay, there isn't much of an incentive to prioritize the fixes, especially since I imagine if the bugs are in the favor of the company they can make a lot of money.

I'm sure it is already a high priority, but it is a system built by humans, and it will always have mistakes. What if they were being forced to pay out 82 million instead of thousand? What about 82 billion? There should be clear cut laws surrounding clear errors, like there are in most places, and ones like this should not be forced to pay out.

Litigate it. That will be the answer.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#147

Post by emodendroket »

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #132
okmokmz wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It is so obviously a genuine mistake that some dude is trying to capitalise on and make a big media hoo-hah out of If the situation were reversed, and due to a genuine mistake FanDuel showed that the customer owed the company the money, do you think they would simply accept that it was a mistake and fix it? If I had to bet I would guess that they'd attempt to collect the money using any means necessary just like the…

That’s not the debate though, that would be morally wrong obviously. The fan is trying to get money that he/she doesn’t really deserve, and it’s immoral. Two wrongs don’t make a right, and setting a precedent that it’s a feee for all makes thing much worse for everyone.

That ship sailed ages ago.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#148

Post by emodendroket »

Obi_Juan_Kenobi wrote: post #141
okmokmz wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In this case the punter must have known it was an error, so it doesn't seem moral to pick up the 82k. If we lived in a world where companies did their best to be reasonable and fair to customers, particularly when mistakes occur, I would agree. However, considering most companies are quite hostile and willing to use any advantage they may have to maximize profits or minimize costs at the expense of customers I belie…

That's a bunch of generalities, though; are the specific accusations about fanduel or records of them benefiting from mistakes like this? "Well, they probably took advantage of people" isn't a very good argument.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/06/sports/fanduel-draftkings...

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#149

Post by freditup »

mdpopescu wrote: post #136
librish wrote: post #130

Surprised at most of the comments here. If the line error had been for $82,000,000 would you have expected them to honor it as well? Whenever there's doubt side with the customer but this was such an obvious error that any reasonable better would have realized it. Had the better lost the money I'm pretty confident they would have refunded the bet as well (since the bets were voided).

Or 82 billion, or trillion... yes, I would expect them to go out of business. Same if they made a mistake that killed someone, for example. As others have said, what if the client (or they kid!) had made the bet online and entered a few extra zeroes (and lost) - would they have accepted "I made a mistake" as an excuse and canceled the bet? You should not encourage a business to have a "head we win, tails you lose" po…

But a client entering a couple extra zeroes is not a clean and obvious mistake. A person could reasonably bet either $5 or $500 for example.

On the other hand, offering something like a 1000x payout for an event that has a 50% chance of happening is a clear and obvious error.

If an error is egregious and obvious, it seems reasonable that a company (in this case FanDuel) not honor the deal.

Similarly, say a grocery store meant to have a "Buy 1 get 2 free" steak sale but accidentally keyed it in as a "Buy 1 get 200 free" sale. Nobody would expect the grocery store to actually give away 200 free steaks to every customer who bought a single steak.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#150

Post by emodendroket »

EpicEng wrote: post #93
maxerickson wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, I'm entirely comfortable making life difficult for bookies.

And why is that? The rest of society has deemed it a ligitimate business. So you simply don't like gambling and that's why you want them to eat it? Not a very strong argument.

Society did no such thing; they weaseled their way into a legal grey zone and made themselves big before society had much say in it.
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