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Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men

propublica.org

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Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men

#91

Post by macspoofing »

detaro wrote: post #40
gascan wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I see both sides of the argument, as long as the advertiser pays per view, it seems wrong to require the listing to target demographics that are almost certainly uninterested. Your example of listing a job in Men's Health but not Cosmopolitan seems good. Technically not a perfect analogue as a woman always could buy Men's Health, but in practice very similar. Spinning off into a different angle, what if an adve…

It seems wrong to allow companies to escape legal rules by choosing to advertise in ways that have badly-fitting payment model. The multiple ads question is interesting though, and might very well be a valid defense, since they then are advertising to both.

You seem to be validating men-only advertising by implying that hiring women is done for no other reason than charity. If a company wants to cut itself at the knees by courting half the market ... let them.

Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men

#92

Post by p1necone »

twblalock wrote: post #81
kristjansson wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of the parent is that it’s being asked to prevent/impede its customers from doing illegal things. That’s not a ridiculous thing to ask, but it’s very different from Facebook itself engaging in illegal activity.

But Facebook itself is engaging in illegal activity by publishing those ads! It is against the law to do that. If you commit a crime because somebody else asked you to do it, does that mean you didn’t break the law? If Facebook commits a crime because someone asked them to do it, does that mean they didn’t break the law? How could the answers to those two questions be different?

Does Facebook know that these are employment ads? Should they add a checkbox to their ad posting system so that the user can tell them that they are advertising for a product or a job posting?

As another example - should Facebook be legally responsible if I use their service to send death threats to someone? If not, why is that case different?

Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men

#93

Post by hyperpape »

reversecs wrote: post #88
hyperpape wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. http://danluu.com/tech-discrimination/

It would be nice if you said what you objected to specifically and describe or specify how the link you've commented adds anything to the discussion.

The idea that companies will be forced by the market to correct discrimination is a nice idea in theory, but false.

I think it's obviously false, but the article will help someone who likes to question the obvious.

Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men

#94

Post by p1necone »

cm2187 wrote: post #23
nbar1 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you can advertise to only one sex. The problem is they advertised a job ad.

Depends on the job. You won’t send a female cleaner in a male locker room. Also some recruiter are explicitely trying to correct a gender imbalance and are therefore actively seeking female candidates. Does that become unethical to advertise to women?

A better example might be advertising for a modelling or acting job where the role is Female.

Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men

#95

Post by hyperpape »

yesenadam wrote: post #76

I once applied for a job as a porn actor (at a flatmate's joking suggestion). They replied saying they only wanted women, but weren't allowed to say that in the ad. That seemed a silly waste of time.

As other comments in the thread make clear, they didn't understand the law.

Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men

#96

Post by pteredactyl »

mreome wrote: post #69
pteredactyl wrote: post #30

I don't understand the problem. The flipside would be they're letting Job Advertisers only target women. I wonder what those numbers look like: What percentage of job advertisers only target women? If I'm spending ad dollars, why would I not choose the most effective form of advertising for me? That's not to say they're not hiring women. In which case it'd be more dubious. Last week in the Bay Area I heard a TSA radi…

The issue is that under the law, you as an employer are not allowed to make a hiring related choice that in any way discriminates against a protected class (with some exceptions discussed on other comments). You might expect to only get applications from men, but legally you can not target men specifically. The inclusion of 'women and people of color strongly encouraged to apply' is actually walking a fine legal line…

Which law is that specifically?

And, as a business owner, please tell me why it would not be in my best interest to hire the best person for the job?

Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men

#97

Post by SenseiMaster »

Is this different from software companies specifically targeting women and certain races? Some companies even have specific internships that are dedicated to women and certain races.

When software companies do that, it's usually seen as a "legitimate" way to increase the number of certain gender and races at the company.

Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men

#98

Post by tathougies »

pteredactyl wrote: post #30

I don't understand the problem. The flipside would be they're letting Job Advertisers only target women. I wonder what those numbers look like: What percentage of job advertisers only target women? If I'm spending ad dollars, why would I not choose the most effective form of advertising for me? That's not to say they're not hiring women. In which case it'd be more dubious. Last week in the Bay Area I heard a TSA radi…

Right.. the government actually requires discrimination in its contracts through affirmative action....

Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men

#99

Post by yesenadam »

hyperpape wrote: post #95
yesenadam wrote: post #76

I once applied for a job as a porn actor (at a flatmate's joking suggestion). They replied saying they only wanted women, but weren't allowed to say that in the ad. That seemed a silly waste of time.

As other comments in the thread make clear, they didn't understand the law.

I'm in Australia. I'm don't know what the law is here, I guess what they said it was.

Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men

#100

Post by twblalock »

p1necone wrote: post #90
twblalock wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ads are illegal, and publishing them is illegal, and the hiring practice you described is also illegal outside of very specific contexts.

Male only employment ads are illegal, but does that mean Facebook should have to change their UI for each case where the rules around advertising are different, or should people posting advertising be required to follow the law?

Facebook needs to stop posting illegal ads, even if users request illegal ads. It's not my problem to decide how Facebook ensures that they obey the law -- it's their problem. Even if its really, really hard, it's still their problem. If it's impossible to achieve with technology, Facebook should leave the advertising business.
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