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Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men

propublica.org

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Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men

#81

Post by twblalock »

kristjansson wrote: post #80
twblalock wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook is not being asked to enforce the law. It is being asked to stop doing illegal things.

The point of the parent is that it’s being asked to prevent/impede its customers from doing illegal things. That’s not a ridiculous thing to ask, but it’s very different from Facebook itself engaging in illegal activity.

But Facebook itself is engaging in illegal activity by publishing those ads! It is against the law to do that.

If you commit a crime because somebody else asked you to do it, does that mean you didn’t break the law?

If Facebook commits a crime because someone asked them to do it, does that mean they didn’t break the law?

How could the answers to those two questions be different?

Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men

#82

Post by eappleby »

obmelvin wrote: post #71
eappleby wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about recruiting from all-female schools like Barnard?

If you were to only recruit from single gender schools then I personally would have an issue with it, same as this issue. However, if you are recruiting from many universities and some happen to be single gender, that is not discriminating.

What if the companies that were placing job ads on Facebook were also placing job ads on other platforms that weren't targeted to men only? Playing devils advocate here...

Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men

#83

Post by twblalock »

gradys wrote: post #78
twblalock wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook publishes the ads. If someone asks Facebook to publish an illegal ad (or to do anything else that's illegal), Facebook should refuse. If you do something illegal because your users asked you to, it's still illegal. The article is pretty clear that publishing the ads is illegal.

Is the ad illegal or is the practice of hiring only men or only women illegal? What if there were separate men-oriented and women-oriented ad creatives that they wanted target to each group?

The ads are illegal, and publishing them is illegal, and the hiring practice you described is also illegal outside of very specific contexts.

Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men

#84

Post by bobthepanda »

eappleby wrote: post #64
bobthepanda wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is excluded though. A woman can buy Men's Health ; a man can buy Cosmopolitan . What Facebook is doing is enabling straight up exclusion of genders from advertising, which is completely different in the eyes of the law.

What about recruiting from all-female schools like Barnard?

Barnard is an all-female school. And how often are jobs only open to Barnard students?

Facebook is not a single-gender platform.

Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men

#85

Post by twblalock »

gascan wrote: post #53
detaro wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems wrong to allow companies to escape legal rules by choosing to advertise in ways that have badly-fitting payment model. The multiple ads question is interesting though, and might very well be a valid defense, since they then are advertising to both.

Yes, I was thinking about that as I wrote, one imperfect but possible fix would be "no pay per view for job listings". Which, for all I know, could already be the case.

The ads would still be illegal even if they weren't pay per view.

Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men

#86

Post by hajile »

I see a bunch of claims, but is this actually illegal in the US? More specifically, is it illegal to selectively advertise a job provided that the business doesn't profile during actual hiring?

If I post job listings in upper-class white neighborhoods only, would that be illegal?

What if I had one ad that targeted men and another which targeted women? What if the male version was designed to be successful while the female version was designed to discourage response?

Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men

#87

Post by lovich »

eappleby wrote: post #82
obmelvin wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you were to only recruit from single gender schools then I personally would have an issue with it, same as this issue. However, if you are recruiting from many universities and some happen to be single gender, that is not discriminating.

What if the companies that were placing job ads on Facebook were also placing job ads on other platforms that weren't targeted to men only? Playing devils advocate here...

Well if Facebook wasn't a large portion of the online advertising market then there might be an argument. When you try to become a monopoly you get extra responsibilities as you gain market share

Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men

#88

Post by reversecs »

hyperpape wrote: post #56
maerF0x0 wrote: post #43

Another angle on the issue: If some company is doing something that is suboptimal (such as excluding a viable gender employee group) they will eventually be priced out of the market by competitors (because their inefficiencies will remove their competitiveness). I wonder how many of these things we should legislate against the "bad guy" vs. just ensure the proliferation/competitiveness of the "Good guys"?

No. http://danluu.com/tech-discrimination/

It would be nice if you said what you objected to specifically and describe or specify how the link you've commented adds anything to the discussion.

Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men

#89

Post by pteredactyl »

JamisonM wrote: post #73
pteredactyl wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's sexist to target men for a job posting. You know the job, you know what it entails and you know what works behaviorally and physically. There are differences between genders. That's okay. I do think it's sexist to not hire a qualified women for the job because she's a women ( esp. in the garbage collector scenario). Like you hate women or something and you don't hire them ( funny story I heard a wo…

The law says that it is "sexist" (i.e. discrimination) to target advertising in a way that denies qualified women the opportunity to apply for a particular job. In the end the net result of targeting only men is the same as refusing to hire women, it denies otherwise qualified women opportunities that they are deserving of. That this has a cost is understood by those who wrote the law, they decided those costs are wo…

Which law specifically states what you say?

It's one thing to target a gender in your advertisement. It's another to deny someone a job based on their gender.

Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men

#90

Post by p1necone »

twblalock wrote: post #83
gradys wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the ad illegal or is the practice of hiring only men or only women illegal? What if there were separate men-oriented and women-oriented ad creatives that they wanted target to each group?

The ads are illegal, and publishing them is illegal, and the hiring practice you described is also illegal outside of very specific contexts.

Male only employment ads are illegal, but does that mean Facebook should have to change their UI for each case where the rules around advertising are different, or should people posting advertising be required to follow the law?
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