Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 399 posts

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#231

Post by lgeorget »

baddox wrote: post #219
lgeorget wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I'm a bit off-topic but sometimes I really fail to understand the USA culture. You can make the most outrageous and racist comments because of "freedom of expression" but making speculators lose their shit with a couple of tweets is a "textbook crime" for which you should "go to jail".

Although that is definitely an oversimplification (there are plenty of limitations to freedom of expression), why is your description particularly odd or difficult to understand? If an executive at a public company makes misleading public statements with the intention to cause certain transactions (which may or may not be the case here), that's a pretty clear financial crime with clear victims. I don't see why jail t…

Well, of course I realize that I'm oversimplifying and exaggerating but my point was that I have the impression that messing with money is a much more serious problem than messing with people in the USA.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#232

Post by S_A_P »

orcdork wrote: post #216
S_A_P wrote: post #53

Sometimes its possible to care so much that you lose sight of what is important. This happened to Elon. I think this will be a case study someday about CEO ethics. I found it very interesting that when he was on the Joe Rogan podcast he had so much to say about social media, and none of it was complementary. How he did not see the dichotomy of his twitter use and this situation strikes me as humorous. I feel like Elo…

"Sometimes its possible to care so much that you lose sight of what is important." Oh come on.

Not sure what you think is wrong with this statement. Seems to me that he let his hubris, lack of sleep and desire to stop the short sellers get in the way of using a bit of discernment. For him that tweet was a weapon against the shorts. I have no reason to doubt that he is fully committed to Tesla being successful, so I stand by the statement.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#233

Post by ghaff »

baddox wrote: post #197
ghaff wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Natural born citizen is not unambiguously defined. However, the common interpretation is citizen from birth, which Cruz was by virtue of having a mother who was a US citizen.

The clause in the US Constitution is brief and potentially ambiguous, but there has been no shortage of lawsuits about presidential eligibility and the legal definition in practice seems to be quite unambiguous. For example, regarding Ted Cruz: > Two November 2015 ballot challenges in New Hampshire alleging that Cruz was not a natural-born citizen were unsuccessful. In December, a similar lawsuit was filed in Vermont…

Which is, frankly, the sensible definition. People would and should rightly look askance at a court decision that found some obscure legal precedent to come to a different decision rather than just letting the voters decide. The question may make for interesting law review articles but there's pretty much zero practical justification for a more stringent definition. (Especially given that even the citizen from birth requirement is arguably something of an anachronism.)

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#234

Post by lgeorget »

dx87 wrote: post #200
lgeorget wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I'm a bit off-topic but sometimes I really fail to understand the USA culture. You can make the most outrageous and racist comments because of "freedom of expression" but making speculators lose their shit with a couple of tweets is a "textbook crime" for which you should "go to jail".

It's because of the belief that specific acts shouldn't be illegal, just the negative effects caused by those acts. People can say racist things all they want, but if there isn't anyone actually being harmed by it, should they be punished by the government? It's like with Musk, he's not being investigated for a stupid tweet, he's being investigated for a stupid tweet that appears to have been made with the purpose of…

> It's because of the belief that specific acts shouldn't be illegal, just the negative effects caused by those acts.

Ah ok it actually makes a lot of sense presented that way. So it really is about "culture" then.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#235

Post by Latteland »

wgerard wrote: post #207
Latteland wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't all trying to do that of course, a lot of people are just trying to make money and look at a stock and think it will go one way or another. But I don't like the people that push false narratives and convince people of things that aren't related to reality.

> They aren't all trying to do that of course The vast majority of them aren't trying to do that, similar to how the vast majority of longs aren't trying to P&D. > But I don't like the people that push false narratives and convince people of things that aren't related to reality. I hope you see the irony in saying that: This is almost word-for-word what Tesla shorts accuse Tesla of.

And shorts I guess keep down voting my comments but I hate that musk posted that, and he better be able to document why he felt that was true.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#236

Post by Latteland »

ProAm wrote: post #72
chollida1 wrote: post #5

The sad piece of karma in all of this is that Musk tweeted in an effort to destroy the shorts. His tweet turned out to: - give the shorts a big dip in his stock, - an investigation by the SEC - an investigation by the DOJ - the backing off of a deep pocketed investor in the Saudis - Him potentially being personally liable, which would mean having to step away from SpaceX and Tesla if he was found guilty of fraud. Thi…

I think he's out at the CEO of Tesla soon anyways. Regardless of this mess.

Why? He's succeeded against all odds in making a fantastic car, that's not in dispute, and they'll be profitable almost in q3 and definitely in q4.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#237

Post by JoshCole »

Latteland wrote: post #80

This time the shorts really have him. Or do they? It turned out Tesla wasn't killed by not being able to make the model 3 at all, it wasn't on being able to make the model s in larger volumes, it wasn't because there was no demand, that there would be no demand after various incentives around the world went down (still some left in the us, also available to all other car companies by the way), it wasn't because they…

You may be getting down voted, but you're right that the last several years of fear, uncertainty, and doubt has been shown to have been bullshit in having not panned out.

Meanwhile, the last several years of warnings about climate change have been shown to be a true warning. My mother had to evacuate from a fire. A friend has had their city flooded. A different friends home was damaged by a hurricane. I've been begged on the street for a drink during a heat wave.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#238

Post by harryh »

leesec wrote: post #229
harryh wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually do think your linked tweet is problematic (though on a much smaller scale than the "secured funding" one). While obviously a joke, it was at the very least an irresponsible one from a public company CEO and definitely could be viewed as an attempt to manipulate algorithmic traders via the dissemination of misinformation. CEOs have a legal duty to their shareholders and the public to communicate about their…

I guess anything 'could be viewed as an attempt to manipulate algorithmic traders' then. At what point did obvious jokes become illegal?

I don't personally think this tweet is illegal however I do think it's irresponsible.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#240

Post by GW150914 »

S_A_P wrote: post #53

Sometimes its possible to care so much that you lose sight of what is important. This happened to Elon. I think this will be a case study someday about CEO ethics. I found it very interesting that when he was on the Joe Rogan podcast he had so much to say about social media, and none of it was complementary. How he did not see the dichotomy of his twitter use and this situation strikes me as humorous. I feel like Elo…

Considering he’s also facing a defamation suit for calling a man a pedophile on Twitter, and then doubling down on the claim later, I think we can afford to be less charitable about Musk at this point. He has an inexplicably fragile ego, whether it’s in relation to his PR move around those trapped kids and the people who actually saved them, and his conspiratorial ideation concerning “the shorts,” or his willingness to tank his own stock to lash out.

He doesn’t come across as caring too much about anything except his ego.

Post reply on HN