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Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

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Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#21

Post by ConfusedDog »

whatok wrote: post #18
ConfusedDog wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it a lie? Saudi did not invest Lucid when he posted the twit. You don't know that funding was not secured. As a matter of fact, if the board supported the decision, it would have been Tesla being invested. The statement itself is not necessarily a lie (could be) but it seems to me likely not.

Did you read the statement he put out? He basically said everything was a lie.

He you mean Elon Musk? He admitted the funding was not secured at the time and was never intended to buy back stock at $420? Why not post a link and let us see.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#22

Post by zwerdlds »

simias wrote: post #17
chollida1 wrote: post #5

The sad piece of karma in all of this is that Musk tweeted in an effort to destroy the shorts. His tweet turned out to: - give the shorts a big dip in his stock, - an investigation by the SEC - an investigation by the DOJ - the backing off of a deep pocketed investor in the Saudis - Him potentially being personally liable, which would mean having to step away from SpaceX and Tesla if he was found guilty of fraud. Thi…

I'm not super knowledgeable in the stock market, what would he have gained from destroying the shorts? I understand that shorts are effectively a bet that the stock will go down but do they actually damage the company in any way? At a glance it sounds like trying to break the thermometer because you think it's too cold out there, the stock wasn't at risk because of the shorts, instead there were shorts because some i…

Shorts drive the price down, making it more expensive for the company to borrow from the market by selling stock. They have to sell more shares to receive a similar amount.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#23

Post by jchw »

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #16
atonse wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As sad as this makes me (because I want Tesla to be wildly successful), I have to agree. This is textbook and brazen stock manipulation, a flat out crime.

Isn't "Opening a civil and criminal investigation" without due process, also direct manipulation as well? Surely, prior to a fault/guilty verdict, running someone through the mud is furtherance of that, no? This reminds me of "perp watches" posed by police departments on Facebook and twitter. No charges, but arrested - and you get to live in the newspaper and social media regardless if you are exonerated. Cause, publ…

A criminal investigation being opened is literally part of due process.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#24

Post by rigsby50 »

beaconstudios wrote: post #6
harryh wrote: post #4

There are a lot of things to respect about Musk. But he lied on twitter in a direct effort to cause financial harm to people shorting Tesla stock. You can't do that. He should go to jail.

> But he lied on twitter in a direct effort to cause financial harm to people shorting Tesla stock. Do you have evidence of this, or is it speculation?

Are you saying he bought Twitter at $420 and the funding was secured for it? Because that sounded like an outright lie. He also doubled down by making that blog post thereby voicing this in his capacity as Tesla CEO.

It wouldn't be illegal if there was a tender offer for the shares at $420.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#25

Post by simias »

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #16
atonse wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As sad as this makes me (because I want Tesla to be wildly successful), I have to agree. This is textbook and brazen stock manipulation, a flat out crime.

Isn't "Opening a civil and criminal investigation" without due process, also direct manipulation as well? Surely, prior to a fault/guilty verdict, running someone through the mud is furtherance of that, no? This reminds me of "perp watches" posed by police departments on Facebook and twitter. No charges, but arrested - and you get to live in the newspaper and social media regardless if you are exonerated. Cause, publ…

What are you referring to exactly? Are you talking about this particular investigation? Why do you think due process isn't followed?

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#26

Post by Asparagirl »

chollida1 wrote: post #5

The sad piece of karma in all of this is that Musk tweeted in an effort to destroy the shorts. His tweet turned out to: - give the shorts a big dip in his stock, - an investigation by the SEC - an investigation by the DOJ - the backing off of a deep pocketed investor in the Saudis - Him potentially being personally liable, which would mean having to step away from SpaceX and Tesla if he was found guilty of fraud. Thi…

Yes. I saw a tweet the other day that essentially said that the very worst thing you could do to Elon Musk would be to lock him in a comfortable conference room with plenty of food and water and excellent WiFi signal...and his phone.

I can think of a political figure for whom this would be true, too.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#27

Post by Reedx »

harryh wrote: post #9
beaconstudios wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But he lied on twitter in a direct effort to cause financial harm to people shorting Tesla stock. Do you have evidence of this, or is it speculation?

The "lied on twitter" part is now clear. He said he had funding secured for a buyout at $420 which he has now basically admitted was not true. The "cause financial harm to people shorting Tesla stock" is a bit of speculation but it seems basically obvious to all observers.

It's not a fact that he lied. He believed he had funding and explained the rational behind that. He wasn't making it up. Intent matters.

Certainly, it was a reckless thing to say and a bad idea given that it wasn't 100% closed. "Secured" was the wrong word to use, no doubt.

Elon: "I left the July 31st meeting with no question that a deal with the Saudi sovereign fund could be closed, and that it was just a matter of getting the process moving. This is why I referred to “funding secured” in the August 7th announcement."

https://www.tesla.com/blog/update-taking-tesla-private

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#28

Post by chooseaname »

beaconstudios wrote: post #20
harryh wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "lied on twitter" part is now clear. He said he had funding secured for a buyout at $420 which he has now basically admitted was not true. The "cause financial harm to people shorting Tesla stock" is a bit of speculation but it seems basically obvious to all observers.

> but it seems basically obvious to all observers. It doesn't seem obvious to me. It seems like one of a few interpretations, not limited to: - Elon was overly stressed (as has been documented recently) and didn't think before posting such an impactful statement - He considers twitter to be an official outlet for Tesla and just continued with his tendency to publicise his decisions and thought process constantly. - H…

So, anyone can get away with a crime if they're overstressed? or just Elon?

> His idea of "secured" is simply different from the SEC definition ...

He is the CEO. He's not allowed to have a different definition. Words mean things. That's how we communicate.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#29

Post by whatok »

simias wrote: post #17
chollida1 wrote: post #5

The sad piece of karma in all of this is that Musk tweeted in an effort to destroy the shorts. His tweet turned out to: - give the shorts a big dip in his stock, - an investigation by the SEC - an investigation by the DOJ - the backing off of a deep pocketed investor in the Saudis - Him potentially being personally liable, which would mean having to step away from SpaceX and Tesla if he was found guilty of fraud. Thi…

I'm not super knowledgeable in the stock market, what would he have gained from destroying the shorts? I understand that shorts are effectively a bet that the stock will go down but do they actually damage the company in any way? At a glance it sounds like trying to break the thermometer because you think it's too cold out there, the stock wasn't at risk because of the shorts, instead there were shorts because some i…

In addition to what other replies have said, Elon also has pledged some of his stock in order to secure personal loans. He will have to fund margin calls or sell his stock if the stock falls below a certain price.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#30

Post by [deleted] »

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #16
atonse wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As sad as this makes me (because I want Tesla to be wildly successful), I have to agree. This is textbook and brazen stock manipulation, a flat out crime.

Isn't "Opening a civil and criminal investigation" without due process, also direct manipulation as well? Surely, prior to a fault/guilty verdict, running someone through the mud is furtherance of that, no? This reminds me of "perp watches" posed by police departments on Facebook and twitter. No charges, but arrested - and you get to live in the newspaper and social media regardless if you are exonerated. Cause, publ…

[deleted]
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