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Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

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Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#11

Post by TAForObvReasons »

chollida1 wrote: post #5

The sad piece of karma in all of this is that Musk tweeted in an effort to destroy the shorts. His tweet turned out to: - give the shorts a big dip in his stock, - an investigation by the SEC - an investigation by the DOJ - the backing off of a deep pocketed investor in the Saudis - Him potentially being personally liable, which would mean having to step away from SpaceX and Tesla if he was found guilty of fraud. Thi…

> All to screw with the shorts, who really have no power whatso ever to hinder Telsa.

If Tesla wasn't burning through cash and didn't need an ever-inflating stock price in order to keep the house in order, the shorts would be powerless and in all honestly would back off. The only reason the shorts have power is that Tesla's future is currently heavily dependent on its stock price.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#12

Post by rigsby50 »

chollida1 wrote: post #5

The sad piece of karma in all of this is that Musk tweeted in an effort to destroy the shorts. His tweet turned out to: - give the shorts a big dip in his stock, - an investigation by the SEC - an investigation by the DOJ - the backing off of a deep pocketed investor in the Saudis - Him potentially being personally liable, which would mean having to step away from SpaceX and Tesla if he was found guilty of fraud. Thi…

Yes, it's called market manipulation.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#13

Post by ConfusedDog »

harryh wrote: post #4

There are a lot of things to respect about Musk. But he lied on twitter in a direct effort to cause financial harm to people shorting Tesla stock. You can't do that. He should go to jail.

Why is it a lie? Saudi did not invest Lucid when he posted the twit. You don't know that funding was not secured. As a matter of fact, if the board supported the decision, it would have been Tesla being invested. The statement itself is not necessarily a lie (could be) but it seems to me likely not.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#15

Post by 32847yjo87tj »

harryh wrote: post #4

There are a lot of things to respect about Musk. But he lied on twitter in a direct effort to cause financial harm to people shorting Tesla stock. You can't do that. He should go to jail.

Except he didn't lie. Funding was secured. So much so that when shareholders objected and Musk retracted, the Saudi wealth fund went out and invested substantially in a Telsa competitor.

This is all drama for drama's sake.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#16

Post by crankylinuxuser »

atonse wrote: post #7
harryh wrote: post #4

There are a lot of things to respect about Musk. But he lied on twitter in a direct effort to cause financial harm to people shorting Tesla stock. You can't do that. He should go to jail.

As sad as this makes me (because I want Tesla to be wildly successful), I have to agree. This is textbook and brazen stock manipulation, a flat out crime.

Isn't "Opening a civil and criminal investigation" without due process, also direct manipulation as well? Surely, prior to a fault/guilty verdict, running someone through the mud is furtherance of that, no?

This reminds me of "perp watches" posed by police departments on Facebook and twitter. No charges, but arrested - and you get to live in the newspaper and social media regardless if you are exonerated. Cause, public shaming?

edit: s/peep/perp/

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#17

Post by simias »

chollida1 wrote: post #5

The sad piece of karma in all of this is that Musk tweeted in an effort to destroy the shorts. His tweet turned out to: - give the shorts a big dip in his stock, - an investigation by the SEC - an investigation by the DOJ - the backing off of a deep pocketed investor in the Saudis - Him potentially being personally liable, which would mean having to step away from SpaceX and Tesla if he was found guilty of fraud. Thi…

I'm not super knowledgeable in the stock market, what would he have gained from destroying the shorts? I understand that shorts are effectively a bet that the stock will go down but do they actually damage the company in any way? At a glance it sounds like trying to break the thermometer because you think it's too cold out there, the stock wasn't at risk because of the shorts, instead there were shorts because some investors though that the stock was at risk. What am I missing?

Also even if destroying the shorts was a positive outcome for Must and Tesla how does that excuse his behaviour? Isn't that textbook market manipulation?

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#18

Post by whatok »

ConfusedDog wrote: post #13
harryh wrote: post #4

There are a lot of things to respect about Musk. But he lied on twitter in a direct effort to cause financial harm to people shorting Tesla stock. You can't do that. He should go to jail.

Why is it a lie? Saudi did not invest Lucid when he posted the twit. You don't know that funding was not secured. As a matter of fact, if the board supported the decision, it would have been Tesla being invested. The statement itself is not necessarily a lie (could be) but it seems to me likely not.

Did you read the statement he put out? He basically said everything was a lie.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#19

Post by 32847yjo87tj »

tomc1985 wrote: post #8
beaconstudios wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But he lied on twitter in a direct effort to cause financial harm to people shorting Tesla stock. Do you have evidence of this, or is it speculation?

If you read his rants/tweets around this time it is pretty clear he is has it in for short sellers

That much is not illegal.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#20

Post by beaconstudios »

harryh wrote: post #9
beaconstudios wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But he lied on twitter in a direct effort to cause financial harm to people shorting Tesla stock. Do you have evidence of this, or is it speculation?

The "lied on twitter" part is now clear. He said he had funding secured for a buyout at $420 which he has now basically admitted was not true. The "cause financial harm to people shorting Tesla stock" is a bit of speculation but it seems basically obvious to all observers.

> but it seems basically obvious to all observers.

It doesn't seem obvious to me. It seems like one of a few interpretations, not limited to:

- Elon was overly stressed (as has been documented recently) and didn't think before posting such an impactful statement

- He considers twitter to be an official outlet for Tesla and just continued with his tendency to publicise his decisions and thought process constantly.

- His idea of "secured" is simply different from the SEC definition and if the funding had been SEC-secured, the tweet would be a compliant form of public disclosure.

[edit]

To be clear, I'm not arguing that the tweet shouldn't be investigated. I'm saying that "he intentionally lied to screw over short sellers" is presumptive and that may not have been his intent.

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