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Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

theguardian.com

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Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#281

Post by simonsarris »

nrjames wrote: post #100

Raleigh converted Fayetteville Street to pedestrian only back in 1977. It ended up killing all of the businesses there. https://www.wral.com/news/local/story/163829/ The city reopened it to traffic, however, and "revitalized" the area, resulting in a booming downtown economy: https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2007-may-learning-... I love pedestrian districts in cities. Copenhagen comes to mind. However, pedes…

Church st in Burlington VT partially closed to cars starting in 1980 (based on Stroget in Copenhagen) and ongoing into 2005 with more and more blocks carved out for pedestrians only. It has been very successful.

Why did it work, when Raleigh failed? What needs to be "considered carefully", exactly?

(The large college nearby definitely helps in VT's case. But what else?)

https://www.churchstmarketplace.com/

https://www.churchstmarketplace.com/about/history

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#282

Post by CompelTechnic »

deelowe wrote: post #221
Sharlin wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many suburbanites, however, have the entitled attitude that cities should accommodate their car trips to dense areas at the expense of people actually living there. Often their mindset is that cities are strictly where people go instead of where people live . In the US this mentality is exarcebated by the white flight and the decay of inner cities, but does also exist in Europe.

As one of these so called "white flight" people, I can't describe how much such statements frustrate me. I didn't move from the city because I'm a racist or don't want to be around people of color. I don't want to be around people period . Living in the city stresses me out. The constant noise, the issues with drunk people randomly knocking on my door at 2am, the couple of times I woke up to people fighting in the pa…

There are good reasons to believe that highly urban environments are bad for your mental health (in ways that I think are worse than how bad they are for your physical health). Sometimes I feel like strong advocates of increasingly-dense construction feel that the denser your lifestyle, the more prosocial your behavior. Maybe these advocates are among the most extraverted people, and they have little experience with the stress it causes others.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3230535/

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#283

Post by vxNsr »

revx wrote: post #260
crikli wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But privately owned gasoline-guzzlers are an archaic solution to the transportation problem, and they are not effective in today's society." Don't assume that every place is like the place you know. Visit the US, particularly the Midwest, and you'll come to understand why privately owned gasoline-guzzlers are the only solution to this particular transportation problem. The major cities are too dispersed with countle…

It seems that the city in this article strikes a great balance - parking on the periphery for people who commute in, but the city center is car-free. The same could work for the US midwest. You drive to the edge of Chicago and then take an (improved) subway in, for example.

To use the Chicago example, The profiled city has a population of under 100,000. The Chicago-land area has nearly 10 million, if you look at just Chicago it's still nearly 3 million. The mayor mentions that you can walk from one end of the city to the other in under half an hour. In Chicago you could make a multi-day hike out of it.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#284

Post by thales_m »

maaaats wrote: post #121
thales_m wrote: post #82

What about people who live inside city limits but work elsewhere? For example, I currently reside in Washington, DC but work about 30 min away. There is no public transportation to my work. At night, I park in a garage but there are others who park on the street and commute out of the city every morning.

This would solve itself if cars were banned. Either you would have to find a more practical place to live, the city add public transportation to the work, you find a new place to work, the work moving offices etc. It's only a problem because you decide things has to be exactly like they are. But with other constraints the society would have landed on an other configuration.

Your're right, I am looking at it through a self-centered perspective. But I think a lot of people would do the same. If you banned cars, considering how long it takes for decent public transportation to roll out in the US, you would be incentivizing people to live elsewhere. My job and work location are fixed so the only option would be to move out of the city or suffer through a miserable commute. I guess people like me would suffer and those that spend all or most of their time inside city limits would benefit.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#285

Post by 5040 »

dagw wrote: post #72
koolba wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In cities sure, but there’s plenty of us who do not want to live in cities. Heck, I don’t even want to live within eye sight of neighbors, stores, or really anything else except some pristine woods. That’s not possible without a car.

Sure there are always going to be people like us who want an 'archaic' life style which require an archaic mode of transportation, but the world shouldn't be optimizing for these people, and I see nothing wrong with making these people pay extra for the externalizes their lifestyles impose.

It's not exactly that extra costs should be imposed on these people, it's that these things shouldn't be subsidized.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#286

Post by eloycoto »

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #226
eloycoto wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes!

How about more frequent deliveries like stores or restaurants that need to get deliveries every few days?

already reply in another thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18015103

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#288

Post by ryanwaggoner »

chomp wrote: post #275
Avalaxy wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a fair comparison though. Yes, the salary is lower, but you can free or almost free healthcare, you get many vacation days, you get vacation money (at least in the netherlands), you get paid time off when sick, more job stability, unemployment benefits, etc.

Yeah but I get 6+ weeks paid time off, plus 6 weeks paternity leave, and triple the pay of a comparable position in the EU, at the cost of worse healthcare. At this point in my life I'm mostly healthy, so the risk of staying in the US outweighs the benefits of moving to the EU.

Unless your health insurance is truly awful, or your local health system is unusually bad, you also probably have as good or better healthcare than you would in the EU.

The problem with US healthcare is the cost, not the quality. If you can afford it, you can get some of the best healthcare in the world here.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#289

Post by amyjess »

deelowe wrote: post #221
Sharlin wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many suburbanites, however, have the entitled attitude that cities should accommodate their car trips to dense areas at the expense of people actually living there. Often their mindset is that cities are strictly where people go instead of where people live . In the US this mentality is exarcebated by the white flight and the decay of inner cities, but does also exist in Europe.

As one of these so called "white flight" people, I can't describe how much such statements frustrate me. I didn't move from the city because I'm a racist or don't want to be around people of color. I don't want to be around people period . Living in the city stresses me out. The constant noise, the issues with drunk people randomly knocking on my door at 2am, the couple of times I woke up to people fighting in the pa…

I agree wholeheartedly with you; like you I'm a proud suburbanite who can't tolerate cities, noise, and people, and to that I'll add one thing...

> Amazingly, non white people feel this way too...

On this note, almost the entire Asian population of the Dallas area lives in the suburbs, and those who can afford it are starting to move to the exurbs. Only people without the means to leave are staying in the city because the city sucks.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#290

Post by dmix »

pouetpouet wrote: post #253
dmix wrote: post #244

Once all cars become electric this will solve one of the biggest problems. Then once they become self-driving the other 25% of noise (honking, sirens, etc) would be significantly reduced.

Half of the problem with cars is a geometric one, they take up too much space. They give rise to sprawl and thus increase the demand for cars in a vicious cycle. Them being electric or self driving will not solve that.

Still, noise is a major factor. Just take the mayor's comments from the article and the opening sentence:

> In Pontevedra, the usual soundtrack of a Spanish city has been replaced by the tweeting of birds and the chatter of humans

> “Listen,” says the mayor, opening the windows of his office. From the street below rises the sound of human voices.

Noise is the #1 problem with cars. Walkability and space issues via parking are #2.

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