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Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

theguardian.com

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Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#181

Post by maaaats »

alkonaut wrote: post #142
maaaats wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point would be to get rid of the reasons people need cars. By rethinking urban planning, infrastructure, public transportation etc.

Is that urban planning or suburban planning? Are we talking about better planned (more walkable) inner cities, or are we talkingt about a long term shift in what people wants, such as people not wanting a private back yard? Because outside of cities, as long as people have detatched homes on reasonably sized lots, getting around requires a car. There will simply not be the density needed for efficient public transpor…

I don't see why it requires a car. A suburb neighborhood could have a bus stop somewhere, taking the people to and from a more connected (as in public transport) place/hub. Walking a few hundred meters must be doable?

Or maybe the hub (outside the city) could have parking, so you drive there but take public transport from there on?

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#182

Post by yAnonymous »

eloycoto wrote: post #140
yAnonymous wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do people do who have to commute to the city for work? What do you do when you have to buy a few boxes of beer for a party that are too heavy to carry? How do emergency services work?

1) There are a few types: - Working in the city center --> Walking mainly. - Working outside of the city --> Cars/bus The city that has banned the cars is the city centre, but is a round island, so in 10-25 min walk, there are parking slots, where you can drive from. 2) Shopping trolley, instead of buying a lot one day, you ended that each day you pick up a few things. (And this is great, 15 min day walking) 3) All t…

Thanks. I suppose the common sense rule also applies if you buy furniture or move in or out of an apartment.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#183

Post by noelwelsh »

fudgy73 wrote: post #56
montenegrohugo wrote: post #3

This may be shocking to people with an American upbringing, but cars (especially privately owned ones) just do not make sense going forward. Cities get bigger and denser, and wasting a big % of land on parking spaces, roads, intersections and accepting a horrible air quality (that reduces citizen life spans and health quality) and noise pollution just does not make any sense anymore. Carse are effective in less dense…

totally agree, but a question for you and others - what's the point | what's going to happen | why is so much $$ being put into autonomous vehicles?

I'm not very excited by autonomous cars, at least for short-trip personal transport, as I don't think they're solving the real problem which is to not need cars in the first place.

However it's far far easier for commercial companies to invest $billions in them than it is for governments to invest $billions in the infrastructure to make cars redundant. Look at the bitching and moaning that happens whenever a new train line is proposed.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#184

Post by dionidium »

montenegrohugo wrote: post #3

This may be shocking to people with an American upbringing, but cars (especially privately owned ones) just do not make sense going forward. Cities get bigger and denser, and wasting a big % of land on parking spaces, roads, intersections and accepting a horrible air quality (that reduces citizen life spans and health quality) and noise pollution just does not make any sense anymore. Carse are effective in less dense…

> But privately owned gasoline-guzzlers are an archaic solution to the transportation problem, and they are not effective in today's society.

They pretty clearly weren't effective in the old cities, either, at least in the U.S., since we had to more or less raze them and move everybody to the suburbs to make cars work.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#185

Post by kaybe »

claydavisss wrote: post #103
nobody271 wrote: post #91

I walk to the grocery store most days. It seems to kill several birds with one stone: - unwind after work - get exercise - get outside - time to think You would think it would be a lot more popular but it's not. It seems more like there must be something wrong with you if you walk on a daily basis lol. ... societal norms I guess.

Come back when you are seventy and tell us if you still enjoy cycling with forty pounds of groceries This entire thread is predicated on building cities for young single men

I am not sure you should be driving a car at seventy if you're not able to ride a bike anymore despite a livetime of experience. (and you can get bikes for various disabilities, yes)

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#186

Post by deadbunny »

TomMarius wrote: post #88
8xde0wcNwpslOw wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Around here (this site I mean), the majority opinion doesn't find any problem at all with sleet and snow and cycling. The odd thing about this is how the biking paths around here (a city 60N) still remain relatively empty for a long time in the winter. It almost confuses me, but not really :-)

> Around here (this site I mean), the majority opinion doesn't find any problem at all with sleet and snow and cycling. I know. I expected to get this kind of responses. It shows how little empathy this site has for other (older, overworked, with 3 kids, pregnant, ...) people that are just a little different than they are.

Yet those people in other countries manage fine.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#187

Post by rimliu »

agumonkey wrote: post #58
montenegrohugo wrote: post #3

This may be shocking to people with an American upbringing, but cars (especially privately owned ones) just do not make sense going forward. Cities get bigger and denser, and wasting a big % of land on parking spaces, roads, intersections and accepting a horrible air quality (that reduces citizen life spans and health quality) and noise pollution just does not make any sense anymore. Carse are effective in less dense…

I also think there's a cultural relativism (pardon the anecdotal neologism~) factor. 100 years ago, moving people with a loaded trunk 100miles an hour was heaven. It became an obvious axiom of modern life that "further faster" was always good. To an extent I even think high speed internet is related to that (you can be everywhere without even moving). But I realized that going fast you forget what's near, and you for…

It's not about speed it is about freedom.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#188

Post by Sharlin »

alkonaut wrote: post #128
montenegrohugo wrote: post #3

This may be shocking to people with an American upbringing, but cars (especially privately owned ones) just do not make sense going forward. Cities get bigger and denser, and wasting a big % of land on parking spaces, roads, intersections and accepting a horrible air quality (that reduces citizen life spans and health quality) and noise pollution just does not make any sense anymore. Carse are effective in less dense…

> cars (especially privately owned ones) just do not make sense going forward Inside cities that is. One must remember that a lot of the people that move around in a city every day don't live in the city. And for many of them a car is a requirement anyway. For me the car is a sunk cost - I have it for the rare times I need it (I don't need it to go into the city), but buying/maintaining/insuring it is mostly a fixed…

Many suburbanites, however, have the entitled attitude that cities should accommodate their car trips to dense areas at the expense of people actually living there. Often their mindset is that cities are strictly where people go instead of where people live. In the US this mentality is exarcebated by the white flight and the decay of inner cities, but does also exist in Europe.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#189

Post by rimliu »

Freak_NL wrote: post #52
TomMarius wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On top of other issues, most of Europe also enjoys a 4-season year - meaning that a bike or scooter is safely and comfortably usable around half of a year, definitely not more.

Please send a note to the Dutch (and the Germans, the Danish, the French, the Belgians, …) to tell them to stop riding their bicycles in the midst of winter. In the past five years there was one day when I couldn't cycle to work due to black ice covering most of the roads, and even that resolved itself in the afternoon. Snow just means you need a bit more dexterity than usual. As for comfort; proper clothing means yo…

Please, go a bit further away from the coastal areas.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#190

Post by brightball »

tudelo wrote: post #171
brightball wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think cars are going anywhere for a while, but I'm very interested to see all of the alternative fuel options that show up eventually (CNG, Hydrogen and Electric so far). I currently drive a Volt...and it's wonderful. Chevy is really missing out on a lot of potential free press by not putting a bigger emphasis on it. I went from spending over $400 / month on gas to about $20 / month. You get the ability to cu…

How the hell did you spend 400 a month on gas?!?!?!

Driving a 1999 Ford Expedition that got about 12 mpg
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