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Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

theguardian.com

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Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#251

Post by Avalaxy »

azamatms wrote: post #239
CalRobert wrote: post #178

Not sure what your situation is but there are a fair number of options for people who are decent programmers to move to Europe permanently..

I think what stops most people is the 50% paycut compared to US salaries I'd move to Berlin in a heartbeat if it weren't for that

It's not a fair comparison though. Yes, the salary is lower, but you can free or almost free healthcare, you get many vacation days, you get vacation money (at least in the netherlands), you get paid time off when sick, more job stability, unemployment benefits, etc.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#252

Post by TheTrotters »

S4M wrote: post #169
pcmonk wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you do this with kids? Suppose you're taking three kids to an event or a climbing gym or whatever and it's further than walking distance. Can biking be made safe enough, or if it's further, is it reasonable for them to bring them on the metro? What if it's three kids ages 5 and under? This is an honest question. I live in a city with public transport now and I much prefer it for myself, but when I think of how…

I have two kids (now 8 and 4 years old). I don't own a car. We never had any issue bringing them with us in public transport (bus, metro or train). We live in Barcelona.

I live in Poland and similar experiences have often surprised my friends in US. „How do you go to the gym, buy groceries and get to school/work without a car?”

Well there are six stores (from very small to a supermarket) within five minutes of walking from my apartment. There’s a gym 500 meters away and another 1 km away. Cinema is 10 minutes by metro. A huge park and a forest are also about 10 minutes away each. Density is convenient!

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#253

Post by pouetpouet »

dmix wrote: post #244

Once all cars become electric this will solve one of the biggest problems. Then once they become self-driving the other 25% of noise (honking, sirens, etc) would be significantly reduced.

Half of the problem with cars is a geometric one, they take up too much space. They give rise to sprawl and thus increase the demand for cars in a vicious cycle. Them being electric or self driving will not solve that.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#254

Post by kristiandupont »

sxv wrote: post #153
moneytide1 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s hostile to pedestrians and discourages people from going outside to just wander This is a good point. The leisurely stroll is practically nonexistent in my city. I'm in a more rural setting, but there is still a well-defined city hub. It just feels awkward walking down the sidewalk when people are zooming by at 35mph+. The result is sidewalk cut offs, which is inconvenient to me as a biker. There are frequentl…

Where I grew up (Huntsville, Alabama), if you saw a pedestrian or cyclist around town you would assume they are homeless. After living in SF and Montreal and traveling in Europe, I can't see myself going back to a "car-first" city. Which sucks because that's pretty much all the US offers.

New York, SF, Boston and San Diego are quite nice for walking IMO. But it's definitely more prevalent in Europe. My commute here in Copenhagen consists of a 10 minute bike ride and it makes me happy every day.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#255

Post by Avalaxy »

skh wrote: post #29
montenegrohugo wrote: post #3

This may be shocking to people with an American upbringing, but cars (especially privately owned ones) just do not make sense going forward. Cities get bigger and denser, and wasting a big % of land on parking spaces, roads, intersections and accepting a horrible air quality (that reduces citizen life spans and health quality) and noise pollution just does not make any sense anymore. Carse are effective in less dense…

I lived for a while in Berlin. Coming back to the U.S. the first thing I noticed were too many billboards and ugly parking lots. Each store has its own parking lot. Largely underused. No nice paths to traverse the bleak endless parking lot landscape. It’s ugly and wasteful. It’s hostile to pedestrians and discourages people from going outside to just wander. Even in relatively walkable communities like the one I live…

The "hostile to pedestrians" is a feeling I get in many countries. When I'm walking somewhere I often have to walk at the side of the road where cars drive at least 50 km/hr and often honk at me or drive by dangerously close. It always makes me feel like I'm doing something illegal, or wrong.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#256

Post by mixmastamyk »

nraynaud wrote: post #220
sxv wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I grew up (Huntsville, Alabama), if you saw a pedestrian or cyclist around town you would assume they are homeless. After living in SF and Montreal and traveling in Europe, I can't see myself going back to a "car-first" city. Which sucks because that's pretty much all the US offers.

There was the author, Bill Bryson, moving back to the US after a few decades un the UK. He would take a stroll, and his neighbors would constantly offer a ride, thinking his car broke down or something.

Ha, we enjoy walking also and have to fend off a lot of offers for a ride.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#257

Post by jorgemf »

pron wrote: post #214
montenegrohugo wrote: post #3

This may be shocking to people with an American upbringing, but cars (especially privately owned ones) just do not make sense going forward. Cities get bigger and denser, and wasting a big % of land on parking spaces, roads, intersections and accepting a horrible air quality (that reduces citizen life spans and health quality) and noise pollution just does not make any sense anymore. Carse are effective in less dense…

> It is a big cultural and infrastructure change over a longer timespan, but it is achievable. Yes, but there's also a geographical difference. Countries in Europe are rather small, and a long history has restricted some land use. In many areas of the US land was almost a non-issue, so people settled more sparsely, and even cities became sprawls (e.g. Houston, LA).

Free resources shouldn't be an excuse to use them wisely.

I get your point, but it is not a good reason why we cannot do things better.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#258

Post by alkonaut »

gaius wrote: post #231
alkonaut wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't see why it requires a car. A suburb neighborhood could have a bus stop somewhere, taking the people to and from a more connected (as in public transport) place/hub. That's how it works. I walk 600m to my bus stop in my suburb neighborhood. So commuting from where I live is no problem. I don't need a car for that. But all the other transportation (driving kids to various sports practices, going to the forest…

So some kind of semi-private transport (e.g. shared autonomous cars) is probably required You can have the on-demand voice-activated self-driving car experience right now: it’s called a taxi. Is that viable for all your use cases?

Taxi prices would have to be substantially lower for taxi to be a viable alternative.

Perhaps for some of the use cases there could be better utilization (meaning cheaper) taxi, e.g. a taxi picking up my kids for school could also pick up a few more.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#259

Post by strictnein »

Sharlin wrote: post #242
deelowe wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As one of these so called "white flight" people, I can't describe how much such statements frustrate me. I didn't move from the city because I'm a racist or don't want to be around people of color. I don't want to be around people period . Living in the city stresses me out. The constant noise, the issues with drunk people randomly knocking on my door at 2am, the couple of times I woke up to people fighting in the pa…

Call it "middle-class flight" if you want. The end result is the same.

It's quite a different thing to be accused of racism than it is to not be able to afford to live in the nicer areas of a metropolitan area.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#260

Post by revx »

crikli wrote: post #248
montenegrohugo wrote: post #3

This may be shocking to people with an American upbringing, but cars (especially privately owned ones) just do not make sense going forward. Cities get bigger and denser, and wasting a big % of land on parking spaces, roads, intersections and accepting a horrible air quality (that reduces citizen life spans and health quality) and noise pollution just does not make any sense anymore. Carse are effective in less dense…

"But privately owned gasoline-guzzlers are an archaic solution to the transportation problem, and they are not effective in today's society." Don't assume that every place is like the place you know. Visit the US, particularly the Midwest, and you'll come to understand why privately owned gasoline-guzzlers are the only solution to this particular transportation problem. The major cities are too dispersed with countle…

It seems that the city in this article strikes a great balance - parking on the periphery for people who commute in, but the city center is car-free. The same could work for the US midwest. You drive to the edge of Chicago and then take an (improved) subway in, for example.
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