Life in the Spanish city that banned cars • Hacker News Board

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#231

Post by gaius » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 2:14 PM UTC

alkonaut wrote: post #207

maaaats wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why it requires a car. A suburb neighborhood could have a bus stop somewhere, taking the people to and from a more connected (as in public transport) place/hub. Walking a few hundred meters must be doable? Or maybe the hub (outside the city) could have parking, so you drive there but take public transport from there on?

> I don't see why it requires a car. A suburb neighborhood could have a bus stop somewhere, taking the people to and from a more connected (as in public transport) place/hub. That's how it works. I walk 600m to my bus stop in my suburb neighborhood. So commuting from where I live is no problem. I don't need a car for that. But all the other transportation (driving kids to various sports practices, going to the forest…

So some kind of semi-private transport (e.g. shared autonomous cars) is probably required

You can have the on-demand voice-activated self-driving car experience right now: it’s called a taxi. Is that viable for all your use cases?

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#232

Post by chadash » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 2:14 PM UTC

elcapitan wrote: post #126

One of the most interesting experiences in my life was visiting Tel Aviv on Yom Kippur. On that day all car traffic is prohibited (also TV stations are offline etc). It was absolutely amazing. Tel Aviv is a city with large roads and usually extremely busy. On that day, cyclists ride over the highway, kids play on the streets. I never felt that directly before how invasive the normal car situation is. Here's a photo h…

Just to clarify, there is no law that I know of prohibiting car traffic on yom kippur in Tel Aviv. However, since this is the most important holiday of the year, even many Israelis who don't celebrate other holidays will celebrate this one. I believe that virtually all businesses are closed that day, even those that don't close on other Jewish holidays (again, not illegal to operate, but customary). So in practice, few people will be driving that day/night.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#233

Post by undefined_user4 » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 2:14 PM UTC

Leftist propaganda.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#234

Post by deelowe » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 2:15 PM UTC

iainmerrick wrote: post #145

twoodfin wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’re underestimating the total acreage of “pristine” wilderness in the United States. Any realistic demand for a lifestyle like koolba‘s would find ample supply.

I’m not so sure. How much land would you need to be completely isolated, no other houses in sight? A square mile? More if you live high on a hill (which many people would like to do). Wikipedia says the area of the USA is only 3,794,100 square miles, so there aren’t very many square-mile patches to hand out compared to the size of the population.

Generally speaking, about 2-5 acres is enough. Most rural build to suit lots are in this range. A square mile is a ludicrous amount of land and not at all typical for rural living. If you have that much land, you're a farmer, have had it given to you, a significant portion is unuseable, there's a large pond/lake on the property, or you're just eccentric. Even out in the country, there's an amount that's practical and beyond that is just a waste. Once you get over 30 acres, it really starts to become silly.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#235

Post by danans » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 2:16 PM UTC

dfee wrote: post #216

hannasanarion wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because of the geography. Southern California and Arizona especially were impossible to live in until after Air Conditioning became cheap and widespread in the 1950s. At that time, modernism in architecture and city planning was at its peak: build it big, build it simple, and build it for cars.

This thread is filled with strange ideas. I live in San Diego. I know people who don’t have air conditioning, and they’re fine. The weather is mild unless you get 15-20 miles off the coast, and then it’s still not that bad 90% of the time. Where did you get this idea?

A lot of the post WWII building in Southern California was in areas 15-20 miles inland where A/C helped, i.e parts of OC and the inland empire.

Much of the this was spurred by the aerospace and oil industries.

Even in LA itself, the urban heat island effect is enough that many homes have A/C.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#236

Post by xxpor » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 2:16 PM UTC

CalRobert wrote: post #178

Not sure what your situation is but there are a fair number of options for people who are decent programmers to move to Europe permanently..

It's hard to justify when you could potentially be looking at a 50% pay cut. That's the only reason I haven't moved myself.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#237

Post by CapricornNoble » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 2:17 PM UTC

Freak_NL wrote: post #52

TomMarius wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On top of other issues, most of Europe also enjoys a 4-season year - meaning that a bike or scooter is safely and comfortably usable around half of a year, definitely not more.

Please send a note to the Dutch (and the Germans, the Danish, the French, the Belgians, …) to tell them to stop riding their bicycles in the midst of winter. In the past five years there was one day when I couldn't cycle to work due to black ice covering most of the roads, and even that resolved itself in the afternoon. Snow just means you need a bit more dexterity than usual. As for comfort; proper clothing means yo…

A few years back I took a trip to Sapporo over the New Year's holiday. It snowed ~3 inches per day the entire week I was there. I consider myself pretty comfortable with cold weather (I went up there so the girl I knew could teach me to snowboard). I'll be damned if I ever agree to give up a private auto in favor of biking in that sort of weather. I didn't even like her FWD Kei car, and wished I was in an AWD Lancer Evolution or Subaru WRX instead.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#238

Post by TheTrotters » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 2:17 PM UTC

rimliu wrote: post #187

agumonkey wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also think there's a cultural relativism (pardon the anecdotal neologism~) factor. 100 years ago, moving people with a loaded trunk 100miles an hour was heaven. It became an obvious axiom of modern life that "further faster" was always good. To an extent I even think high speed internet is related to that (you can be everywhere without even moving). But I realized that going fast you forget what's near, and you for…

It's not about speed it is about freedom.

I’m from Europe but I lived in Houston during my college years. I had to use my car to go almost anywhere. It was the opposite of freedom. No matter what whenever I left my apartment I had to get into my car, drive it and then park it somewhere. If it was rush hour I was at the mercy of traffic. At times (e.g. Sunday mornings) it was pleasant. But often it was suffocating.

Now I’m back in Europe and I feel free when I’m moving around a city. I might take public transportation one way and walk back to my apartment. I can get a call from my friend in the afternoon and go out for some whisky without having to drive back to my apartment and taking a cab.

I don’t know where I’ll live in the future but I’d be happy if I didn’t need to own a car.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#239

Post by azamatms » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 2:19 PM UTC

CalRobert wrote: post #178

Not sure what your situation is but there are a fair number of options for people who are decent programmers to move to Europe permanently..

I think what stops most people is the 50% paycut compared to US salaries

I'd move to Berlin in a heartbeat if it weren't for that

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#240

Post by Y_Y » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 2:19 PM UTC

montenegrohugo wrote: post #3

This may be shocking to people with an American upbringing, but cars (especially privately owned ones) just do not make sense going forward. Cities get bigger and denser, and wasting a big % of land on parking spaces, roads, intersections and accepting a horrible air quality (that reduces citizen life spans and health quality) and noise pollution just does not make any sense anymore. Carse are effective in less dense…

> Carse are effective in less dense regions, but in modern cities other solutions have to be found.

"In Scottish geography, a Carse (the modern form of older Scots kerse) is an area of fertile, low-lying (typically alluvial) land occupying certain Scottish river valleys,[1] such as that of the River Forth."

I am forced to agree.