Life in the Spanish city that banned cars • Hacker News Board

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#221

Post by deelowe » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 2:08 PM UTC

Sharlin wrote: post #188

alkonaut wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cars (especially privately owned ones) just do not make sense going forward Inside cities that is. One must remember that a lot of the people that move around in a city every day don't live in the city. And for many of them a car is a requirement anyway. For me the car is a sunk cost - I have it for the rare times I need it (I don't need it to go into the city), but buying/maintaining/insuring it is mostly a fixed…

Many suburbanites, however, have the entitled attitude that cities should accommodate their car trips to dense areas at the expense of people actually living there. Often their mindset is that cities are strictly where people go instead of where people live . In the US this mentality is exarcebated by the white flight and the decay of inner cities, but does also exist in Europe.

As one of these so called "white flight" people, I can't describe how much such statements frustrate me. I didn't move from the city because I'm a racist or don't want to be around people of color. I don't want to be around people period. Living in the city stresses me out. The constant noise, the issues with drunk people randomly knocking on my door at 2am, the couple of times I woke up to people fighting in the parking lot, the sirens, the random music festival 3 blocks over that I didn't know about, the fact I had 2 motorcycles stolen in 5 years, my kids not having a convenient place to play outside and more led to me leaving the city.

I didn't move because I'm white, I moved because I wanted peace and quiet. Most of the people I know who live around me moved away from the city for the same reason. Amazingly, non white people feel this way too...

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#222

Post by janlaureys » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 2:08 PM UTC

Sharlin wrote: post #147

yodsanklai wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This may be shocking to people with an American upbringing, but cars (especially privately owned ones) just do not make sense going forward. It's not limited to the US. Even in Europe (at least in France where I live), we have a lot of protests whenever there are measures against cars. A few days ago, there was a no-car day in Paris, you could see people on social medias extremely angry.

Cars are the ultimate tragedy of the commons. People want to use cars but at the same time don’t want the negative externalities caused by everyone else using cars too – congestion, noise, pollution, road surface erosion. Because that selfish individualistic viewpoint gets us nowhere, a coordinated approach is needed.

Nobody drives a car in New York. Too much traffic.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#223

Post by CapricornNoble » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 2:09 PM UTC

tudelo wrote: post #171

brightball wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think cars are going anywhere for a while, but I'm very interested to see all of the alternative fuel options that show up eventually (CNG, Hydrogen and Electric so far). I currently drive a Volt...and it's wonderful. Chevy is really missing out on a lot of potential free press by not putting a bigger emphasis on it. I went from spending over $400 / month on gas to about $20 / month. You get the ability to cu…

How the hell did you spend 400 a month on gas?!?!?!

I've done that before, when the Yen:Dollar exchange rate was brutal, I think in 2012, Japanese premium fuel was pushing $7.50-$8/gallon. In 1990's sedans with turbocharged engines, city driving, and a heavy foot.....yeah you're getting <20mpg and spending $3-400 per month too.....totally worth it. Japanese sports sedans are awesome.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#224

Post by AlwaysRock » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 2:09 PM UTC

montenegrohugo wrote: post #3

This may be shocking to people with an American upbringing, but cars (especially privately owned ones) just do not make sense going forward. Cities get bigger and denser, and wasting a big % of land on parking spaces, roads, intersections and accepting a horrible air quality (that reduces citizen life spans and health quality) and noise pollution just does not make any sense anymore. Carse are effective in less dense…

I live in Chicago and I only NEED a car once or twice a year. I walk to work. I can walk to the blue or red line trains which will get me just about anywhere else I need. There are a few grocery stores on my walk home from work. There's great coffee shops and restaurants near me.

I uber home when it's late and I've been drinking but that's really the only time I'm in a car.

I know I've got a somewhat special situation as I chose my apartment based on it's walk ability. However I've lived in other parks of the city and I had similar a similar experience. It just took a little longer to get places sometimes.

I believe eventually cars will be a shared service. Automated cars that will arrive whenever I need one. That will be the day.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#225

Post by 3pt14159 » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 2:10 PM UTC

Sharlin wrote: post #188

alkonaut wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cars (especially privately owned ones) just do not make sense going forward Inside cities that is. One must remember that a lot of the people that move around in a city every day don't live in the city. And for many of them a car is a requirement anyway. For me the car is a sunk cost - I have it for the rare times I need it (I don't need it to go into the city), but buying/maintaining/insuring it is mostly a fixed…

Many suburbanites, however, have the entitled attitude that cities should accommodate their car trips to dense areas at the expense of people actually living there. Often their mindset is that cities are strictly where people go instead of where people live . In the US this mentality is exarcebated by the white flight and the decay of inner cities, but does also exist in Europe.

I don't know how it is outside of Canada, but here in Toronto what drives me insane is that Cities are essentially completely beholden to the province and it makes everything worse.

Something simple like setting up a toll to use city streets to reduce congestion is completely off the table. We end up highly taxing corporate zoned housing to try to kinda indirectly tax the work place of the suburbanites that are making a mess of our city, but it's only a partial fix and it's distortionary.

Meanwhile, people that actually live in Toronto pay way more in income tax than people that live outside of it, and our taxes are indexed to inflation, unlike the petrol taxes. Add in the three way split of the left vote and the FPTP system and we end up with a vindictive moron in charge of the province fucking up representation by changing our riding map in the middle of a city election.

Cars have ruined so many things. The amount of times a car has honked at me for not putting my own life in danger because I need 5 seconds to get to a safer place to pull over with my bike is crazy. I'm not "taking a lane" I'm just keeping myself from getting doored.

Imagine if cars had never been invented and we could have stuck with trains for everything? Way more green space. Way healthier population. Way more 4 or 6 story buildings. Way more parks. Way less time wasted behind the wheel. Fewer deaths. No road rage.

And what would we have to give up?

3000 sqft suburban houses and their shitty pools that get used 5 times a year. Instead of watching TV at night alone at home people could walk over to their friends place or go out to a cute restaurant or well groomed park.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#226

Post by TheCoelacanth » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 2:10 PM UTC

eloycoto wrote: post #211

yAnonymous wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. I suppose the common sense rule also applies if you buy furniture or move in or out of an apartment.

Yes!

How about more frequent deliveries like stores or restaurants that need to get deliveries every few days?

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#227

Post by archi42 » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 2:10 PM UTC

yAnonymous wrote: post #116

eloycoto wrote: post #87

Hi! I'm living in one of the closes villages around Pontevedra, I'm heabilly use the city, and I'm doing some remote job for an SF startup. If you have questions, I'm happy to help and provide feedback.

What do people do who have to commute to the city for work? What do you do when you have to buy a few boxes of beer for a party that are too heavy to carry? How do emergency services work?

I recently saw a delivery service for that kind of stuff (kind of "Bier Taxi") using small electric vehicles in our 180k city. Scaling this to a "local grocery mail order service" could be a nice business model for a car-free city: Supporting local businesses AND avoiding having to carry 5 crates of beverages for the next party.

I think Rewe (a supermarket chain) is doing something like this in (parts of) Germany; but I believe they use gas-driven cars.

Is there something like that in your city?

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#228

Post by anthk » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 2:12 PM UTC

CapricornNoble wrote: post #198

montenegrohugo wrote: post #3

This may be shocking to people with an American upbringing, but cars (especially privately owned ones) just do not make sense going forward. Cities get bigger and denser, and wasting a big % of land on parking spaces, roads, intersections and accepting a horrible air quality (that reduces citizen life spans and health quality) and noise pollution just does not make any sense anymore. Carse are effective in less dense…

There ARE some great suggestions in the article, namely underground parking, roundabouts instead of stop lights, and banning street parking. Now, to YOUR points: "Mass transit": Shared and claustrophobic space with other travelers. "Biking lanes": Requires exposure to the elements. Depending on where you live this is already a non-starter if you don't want to arrive at your destination drenched in sweat. "electro-sco…

Pontevedra mild climate? MediteWHAT? Please, take a map of Spain and comment again. Spain among Portugal is what you see when you cross over the Atlantic from the US.

Pontevedra is in Galicia, northern Spain. Here it rains like UK, and even worse. No Sun except a very few weeks a year.

Not all Spain is sunny, and not all the US is like California, Texas or Florida. You would freeze in Castille or Aragon in Winter. You would pray to see the sunlight in Asturias, Galicia or any region of the Bay of Biscay.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#229

Post by Shorel » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 2:12 PM UTC

gaius wrote: post #69

montenegrohugo wrote: post #3

This may be shocking to people with an American upbringing, but cars (especially privately owned ones) just do not make sense going forward. Cities get bigger and denser, and wasting a big % of land on parking spaces, roads, intersections and accepting a horrible air quality (that reduces citizen life spans and health quality) and noise pollution just does not make any sense anymore. Carse are effective in less dense…

privately owned gasoline-guzzlers are an archaic solution to the transportation problem, and they are not effective in today's society For people with a very limited lifestyle restricted to a few city blocks perhaps this is true. But the majority of people do not live that way and have use cases for cars that you have not considered in your analysis. change always requires some sacrifice, By other people, funnily eno…

It's good to have a car and use it for long trips - or whenever you want to.

It is not good to need a car and having to use it every day for several hours.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#230

Post by lorenzhs » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 2:13 PM UTC

rimliu wrote: post #189

Freak_NL wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please send a note to the Dutch (and the Germans, the Danish, the French, the Belgians, …) to tell them to stop riding their bicycles in the midst of winter. In the past five years there was one day when I couldn't cycle to work due to black ice covering most of the roads, and even that resolved itself in the afternoon. Snow just means you need a bit more dexterity than usual. As for comfort; proper clothing means yo…

Please, go a bit further away from the coastal areas.

I live in the southwest of Germany, 500km from the coast as the crow flies. I cycle-commute year-round, around 5km each way. It's no problem if you have a good rain jacket and rain pants, and a down jacket, gloves and a hat (that fits below a helmet) against the cold in winter.