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Research shows that nearly every U.S. cell provider is doing throttling

news.northeastern.edu

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Re: Research shows that nearly every U.S. cell provider is doing throttling

#41

Post by mehrdadn »

gesman wrote: post #39

The problem is not with throttling per se (it’s a laws of physics after all!) but not disclosing and/or misleading customers to think there is an unlimited stable bandwidth and/or not disclosing in clear words when, how and how much throttling will be triggered. Do that - and the grief from both sides will be avoided. Without proper and clear disclosure both sides think the other side is an a holes

> The problem is not with throttling per se (it’s a laws of physics after all!)

Are you using "throttling" to mean the same thing other people do? When people say "throttling" they refer to the deliberate/artificial action to that effect, not the natural throughput limitation.

Re: Research shows that nearly every U.S. cell provider is doing throttling

#42

Post by kristoffer »

DougBTX wrote: post #37
sbr464 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But from a physics/technical standpoint, a radio only has so much capacity. How would you handle the situation, if you managed a provider, and 10 people at a bar started streaming an NBA game in HD? Somethings got to give.

The argument would go that if the radio has total capacity x and each user is allocated capacity y, then only x / y users should be allowed to join the service, otherwise it is "over selling". It is a super straight forward model, but obviously much more expensive to provide. I imagine most users would be happy to pay 1/10 of the cost to get a service that might drop to 10% performance in the worst case, as long as i…

If cell providers advertises their services as "Always 100 Mbps guaranteed" that would be a problem, but do they really?

Because that is not how wireless communication works. E.g. in LTE the user is scheduled both in frequency and time. The operator has a certain frequency spectrum that gives a certain maximum transmission rate (one user getting all frequencies and time).

The scheduling happens based on (amongst other things) signal to noise ratio and priority of each user and their traffic types (voice, data, etc). The goal of the operator is to maximize the overall capacity of the network. This is beneficial for the user as well.

I think the problem in the US is the lack of competition. Not net neutrality issues. In places where this works well you just change operator if you are not happy with your current one. This way the provider is free to experiment with how to run their network and everyone benefits.

Re: Research shows that nearly every U.S. cell provider is doing throttling

#43

Post by sbr464 »

DougBTX wrote: post #37
sbr464 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But from a physics/technical standpoint, a radio only has so much capacity. How would you handle the situation, if you managed a provider, and 10 people at a bar started streaming an NBA game in HD? Somethings got to give.

The argument would go that if the radio has total capacity x and each user is allocated capacity y, then only x / y users should be allowed to join the service, otherwise it is "over selling". It is a super straight forward model, but obviously much more expensive to provide. I imagine most users would be happy to pay 1/10 of the cost to get a service that might drop to 10% performance in the worst case, as long as i…

Also, video absolutely obliterates a wireless radio. Just to keep with the example you mentioned, a wireless radio doesn’t necessarily breakdown into 1/10 per user for 10 users. 2-3 users could flood the connection, the building interference can eat 20-30% off the top, different cell phone models may have stronger radios etc. Then throw in a bunch of 4K ultra hd streams and those contract terms stop making any sense.

Re: Research shows that nearly every U.S. cell provider is doing throttling

#44

Post by mehrdadn »

takeda wrote: post #26
sbr464 wrote: post #25

Years back, I operated a small ISP to serve a need until cable broadband arrived in the community. I had to monitor overall usage and throttle clients frequently with high torrent/video usage. It was also an issue with hotspots in RV Parks/campgrounds where there was a higher ratio of video usage. There are technical limitations to spectrum/bandwidth, I'm curious why this isn't mentioned more in discussions like thes…

You should either guarantee a minimum speed with unlimited data or cap on maximum amount of data use can use. Throttling based on content means you were overselling. As an user I prefer to be in control of which applications get to use the Internet that I'm paying for.

> guarantee a minimum speed with unlimited data

How in the world would you guarantee that when you might not receive a strong/clear enough signal?

Re: Research shows that nearly every U.S. cell provider is doing throttling

#45

Post by gesman »

mehrdadn wrote: post #41
gesman wrote: post #39

The problem is not with throttling per se (it’s a laws of physics after all!) but not disclosing and/or misleading customers to think there is an unlimited stable bandwidth and/or not disclosing in clear words when, how and how much throttling will be triggered. Do that - and the grief from both sides will be avoided. Without proper and clear disclosure both sides think the other side is an a holes

> The problem is not with throttling per se (it’s a laws of physics after all!) Are you using "throttling" to mean the same thing other people do? When people say "throttling" they refer to the deliberate/artificial action to that effect, not the natural throughput limitation.

Available bandwidth vs. natural inclination of humans to pay minimal fee yet engage in non stop downloading of free hi def movies and watch streaming ....

Something like that

As a provider to survive and keep providing service to all members - throttling of offenders need to take place

Re: Research shows that nearly every U.S. cell provider is doing throttling

#46

Post by gst »

hamandcheese wrote: post #24

Throttling video speeds may very well be a good thing for many (most?) users who have a fixed data cap. Throttling means Netflix/Youtube/etc react by sending lower quality video to your tiny screen, where you won’t be able to appreciate higher quality anyway.

> Throttling video speeds may very well be a good thing for many (most?) users who have a fixed data cap.

I would assume that most users with recent contracts are going to have an "unlimited" amount of included data, given that most (all?) major US providers sell unlimited data by default.

Re: Research shows that nearly every U.S. cell provider is doing throttling

#47

Post by bryanrasmussen »

gsich wrote: post #23
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #10

Netflix blocks PIA, a VPN, from accessing its servers. Rights holders’ unchecked power is the problem. Abstracting their power through net neutrality terminology distracts from their damage and promotes their cause. If you want a shortcut to the solution, it includes “how could I make Netflix indfifferent as to how I access their content?”

Netflix is the problem. Nobody is forcing them to implement a VPN check. Rights holder want this. Netflix just delivers.

I'm pretty sure if Netflix had their way they would not have spent resources on doing a VPN check.

Re: Research shows that nearly every U.S. cell provider is doing throttling

#48

Post by sbr464 »

sbr464 wrote: post #25

Years back, I operated a small ISP to serve a need until cable broadband arrived in the community. I had to monitor overall usage and throttle clients frequently with high torrent/video usage. It was also an issue with hotspots in RV Parks/campgrounds where there was a higher ratio of video usage. There are technical limitations to spectrum/bandwidth, I'm curious why this isn't mentioned more in discussions like thes…

Just a side note while I was reminiscing about the pain of being an ISP. Here's a couple photos of the tower for this project. I got frustrated with satellite internet, and bought a 140' tower from the scrap yard before it was chopped up for about $2k. Got a good deal on some Tranzeo 5.8ghz equipment from a cable company and the learning experience commenced. I think I was 23 in that photo.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1yoBltbqtUWMN-cHMsHTd...

Re: Research shows that nearly every U.S. cell provider is doing throttling

#49

Post by kakarot »

sbr464 wrote: post #40
DougBTX wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument would go that if the radio has total capacity x and each user is allocated capacity y, then only x / y users should be allowed to join the service, otherwise it is "over selling". It is a super straight forward model, but obviously much more expensive to provide. I imagine most users would be happy to pay 1/10 of the cost to get a service that might drop to 10% performance in the worst case, as long as i…

I agree, definitely. It was an interesting experiment, and the realities of the then current wireless tech were so limiting, it was eye-opening to be on the provider side for once.

Then we shouldn't have done things like spend millions pushing 4G only to bait and switch with 4G LTE once everyone had upgraded. We shouldn't claim certain capabilities that simply aren't there. The worst thing you can do for a bad product is good marketing, and that's exactly what these ISPs are doing.

Re: Research shows that nearly every U.S. cell provider is doing throttling

#50

Post by nsomaru »

sbr464 wrote: post #25

Years back, I operated a small ISP to serve a need until cable broadband arrived in the community. I had to monitor overall usage and throttle clients frequently with high torrent/video usage. It was also an issue with hotspots in RV Parks/campgrounds where there was a higher ratio of video usage. There are technical limitations to spectrum/bandwidth, I'm curious why this isn't mentioned more in discussions like thes…

I’ve been looking to install WiFi internet for some tenanted accommodation (think 8 flats or so). As it’s an “included with rent” perk, I need a way to dynamically throttle based on number of clients and protocol.

Is there a simple prosumer solution for this? My current path is leading me towards openwrt on a beefy router with some custom firewall rules.

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