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The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted

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Re: The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted

#111

Post by Fjolsvith »

rectang wrote: post #23
yardie wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tough on crime has gone out of style. We had our primaries recently and only a few conservative dinosaurs even mentioned ToC in their voter biography. Most of the candidates running for AD, circuit judge, and other legal offices were drumming up their crime intervention bonafides.

Voter suppression through felony disenfranchisement, however, remains en vogue. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/09/florida... "In Florida, more than 21 percent of black adults are disenfranchised because of this policy."

They can move to Kansas where they could vote Republican.

Re: The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted

#112

Post by Fjolsvith »

Fjolsvith wrote: post #111
rectang wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voter suppression through felony disenfranchisement, however, remains en vogue. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/09/florida... "In Florida, more than 21 percent of black adults are disenfranchised because of this policy."

They can move to Kansas where they could vote Republican.

Just saying...

Re: The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted

#113

Post by djajshgsjja »

fipple wrote: post #107
rectang wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voter suppression through felony disenfranchisement, however, remains en vogue. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/09/florida... "In Florida, more than 21 percent of black adults are disenfranchised because of this policy."

Maybe don’t commit felonies?

It’s harder than it sounds!

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1594035229/ref=as_li_tl_no...

Re: The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted

#114

Post by alphabettsy »

gascan wrote: post #97
40acres wrote: post #6

"Tough on crime" was always a dog whistle to signal to (most) voters that politicians were willing to lock up minorities for comparably minor crimes. It's good to see that the winds have shifted towards a more just system although there is a long way to go. I think there are many factors that contribute to this trend and would love to see a paper which goes into the details. I would bet that prosecutors have a lot to…

This seems like revisionist history. From the seventies thru the beginning of the nineties, the national homicide rate was double to triple what it is today. We had real crime problems in the "Tough On Crime" era, and we were hitting record crime rates. A lazy Wiki snip: Violent crime nearly quadrupled between 1960 and its peak in 1991. Property crime more than doubled over the same period. Since the 1990s, however,…

There are a lot of things to consider, including what you consider a crime.

I read one article that described how because of the increase in police presence in schools students were more often being handled by the criminal justice system like the common school fight, that would’ve otherwise not been included in assault statistics in the past.

During the crack epidemic many small offenses, such as petty theft were being punished harshly and used as an excuse to put more resources towards the war on drugs rather than diversion and treatment.

Re: The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted

#115

Post by [deleted] »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #110
manfredo wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The city refuses to enforce property crimes. Even if the police make an arrest, nothing comes out of it. Many residents consider it to be "criminalizing poverty", thus it is socially unacceptable to enforce property crimes. Sure, there are specific roles (e.g. the District Attorney) that have control over this, but they answer to city hall, and they respond to voters' desires. Ultimately it's on us residents for how…

I think it starts with the fact that being penniless is illegal. You can’t poop, you can’t build shelter. You can’t vend small items like snacks or clothing. All of that is illegal. So poverty truly is illegal in SF. So, the poor will be criminalized regardless of whether they steal, what’s their incentive not to steal? From their perspective, they’re already criminals for not being rich, why not act like it? Add to…

[deleted]

Re: The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted

#116

Post by Retra »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #51
openasocket wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A misdemeanor can still result in up to 12 months of jail time, though...

On paper, I would agree with you that up to 12 months of jail time for a relatively minor crime like shoplifting is reasonable. In practice, it appears the result of the new law is that the police don't bother showing up and property crime essentially isn't enforced.

For an adult, that sounds reasonable. For a child, you're stealing actual brain development and enculturation time.

Re: The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted

#117

Post by manfredo »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #110
manfredo wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The city refuses to enforce property crimes. Even if the police make an arrest, nothing comes out of it. Many residents consider it to be "criminalizing poverty", thus it is socially unacceptable to enforce property crimes. Sure, there are specific roles (e.g. the District Attorney) that have control over this, but they answer to city hall, and they respond to voters' desires. Ultimately it's on us residents for how…

I think it starts with the fact that being penniless is illegal. You can’t poop, you can’t build shelter. You can’t vend small items like snacks or clothing. All of that is illegal. So poverty truly is illegal in SF. So, the poor will be criminalized regardless of whether they steal, what’s their incentive not to steal? From their perspective, they’re already criminals for not being rich, why not act like it? Add to…

Not all of the people committing property crimes are homeless. For example: https://www.insideedition.com/inside-wave-smash-and-grab-car...

Re: The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted

#118

Post by diob »

gascan wrote: post #97
40acres wrote: post #6

"Tough on crime" was always a dog whistle to signal to (most) voters that politicians were willing to lock up minorities for comparably minor crimes. It's good to see that the winds have shifted towards a more just system although there is a long way to go. I think there are many factors that contribute to this trend and would love to see a paper which goes into the details. I would bet that prosecutors have a lot to…

This seems like revisionist history. From the seventies thru the beginning of the nineties, the national homicide rate was double to triple what it is today. We had real crime problems in the "Tough On Crime" era, and we were hitting record crime rates. A lazy Wiki snip: Violent crime nearly quadrupled between 1960 and its peak in 1991. Property crime more than doubled over the same period. Since the 1990s, however,…

I really encourage you to read The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness.

Hand waving away racial influences is convenient to some, but definitely not to those affected by it. If you look into the statistics, you'll see that primarily minority communities were targeted by the "tough on crime" era. And these touted "tough on crime" policies only had the effect of enslaving and crippling generations of minority communities.

The crime rates are nearly similar among all races, and it's actually been shown that whites use more drugs than minorities. The thing is though, police don't patrol white communities. They also let white people off the hook. If you're not white though, the tradition is "one strike" (see Bill Clinton's damning policy). Hence, you get in trouble for something any kid might do at 16, and you get locked into a system of control and degradation for the rest of your life.

Please, please, please, do not defend the dark parts of American history. Especially when they're still going on.

Re: The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted

#119

Post by taurath »

gascan wrote: post #97
40acres wrote: post #6

"Tough on crime" was always a dog whistle to signal to (most) voters that politicians were willing to lock up minorities for comparably minor crimes. It's good to see that the winds have shifted towards a more just system although there is a long way to go. I think there are many factors that contribute to this trend and would love to see a paper which goes into the details. I would bet that prosecutors have a lot to…

This seems like revisionist history. From the seventies thru the beginning of the nineties, the national homicide rate was double to triple what it is today. We had real crime problems in the "Tough On Crime" era, and we were hitting record crime rates. A lazy Wiki snip: Violent crime nearly quadrupled between 1960 and its peak in 1991. Property crime more than doubled over the same period. Since the 1990s, however,…

Its a very interesting subject, and depends how far down you want to go before you are satisfied with an answer.

Both victimization and offending rates for murder were 3-4x the rate for blacks than whites in 1980 for example. Why was that? Could it be factors like systematic racism, redlining, bundling a lot of poor people into housing projects, brain drain in cities (due to redlining post-integration)?

The result of "tough on crime" has been incarceration rates exploding. They just throw anyone in jail. 5% of black adults are in jail.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_ra...

You would think that since the crime rates are down, the incarceration rate would be going down - how can incarceration rates go up as crime goes down? Technology and standard of living increases for the poorest has probably helped crime. The mass incarcerations just help for-profit prisons.

Re: The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted

#120

Post by rootusrootus »

rossdavidh wrote: post #99
rootusrootus wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roe v Wade is pretty far out there, but lead exposure has a lot of decent correlational data from different regions, since it was phased out around the country and around the world at different times.

Roe v Wade is not _that_ far out there. It explains state-level differences for when the decline began, for example. I'm not saying it's a slam dunk, but it's got some reasonable supporting evidence, enough to at least not be considered "out there".

You may be right; I recall, though, hearing some fairly convincing counter-arguments at the time the first Roe v Wade hypothesis was floated. But maybe there's been more research since.
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