Earlier quoted context omitted.
I mean there are places where removing a hand is still the standard, and it reduces but doesn't end crime.
I live in a community with a massive number of Somali refugees. Amputated hands for crime/whatever are a common sight among the older men. Somalia is one of the most dangerous places in the world. Over time, Europe has abolished the death penalty. They have the lowest murder rates in the history of civilization. In the US, there are wide variations between states for violent crime. Unsurprisingly, the states with the…
The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted
71–80 of 151 posts
Re: The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
Property crime is rampant in a lot of the Bay Area. Violent crime has hit historic lows. I've learned to never keep valuables in your car and always lock your doors, but I also feel safe walking around in a number of places that historically have had really bad reputations, like even the Tenderloin. I wouldn't be so quick to blame changes in laws, though. In my experience, property crime is up because the police don'…
What incentives cause police to care about stumbling drunk people but not petty theft or property crimes? Are they rewarded for arresting drunk people?
Re: The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted
#73Wait, so California made if very hard to put a youngster in juvenile detention, and the number of youngsters juvenile detention plummeted. Is there some deep meaning behind this that I am missing? It's like saying "we reclassified most crimes from felony to misdemeanor and the number of felonies decreased dramatically!" Well, duh! The thing to check would be what happened to crime/reoffense rates. And then making con…
Re: The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted
#74Anyone have any evidence that suggests this is because there are fewer juveniles that should be in prison, or if we're imprisoning more accurately, or there are more juvneiles that aren't in prison but should be? There's a lot of nuance here and I haven't found any good data on what caused the change -- just political bloviation
If you look at the data, in general America's youth has been "doing better" compared to the 80s and 90s. High school graduation rates are up [0], juvenile crime is down [1], teenage pregnancy is down [2], tobacco use was down for a long time but is seeing an uptick due to e-cigs [3]. Generally the youth population is doing better and I think that all reflects in the detention rate. 0: https://www.usnews.com/high-scho…
Re: The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted
#75In SF I've seen first-hand groups of youths filling up their backpacks with store items and running off laughing. They don't even run more than a block before slowing down to walk because they know nothing will happen. Thousands of dollars of items are taken but because of the new law where theft under $1000 per person is considered a misdemeanor, nothing happens. I talked with the merchant and she said that the poli…
Re: The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted
#76In SF I've seen first-hand groups of youths filling up their backpacks with store items and running off laughing. They don't even run more than a block before slowing down to walk because they know nothing will happen. Thousands of dollars of items are taken but because of the new law where theft under $1000 per person is considered a misdemeanor, nothing happens. I talked with the merchant and she said that the poli…
Although the police should have these statistics as well, since it is probably impossible to file a claim without a police report in hand.
Re: The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted
#77In SF I've seen first-hand groups of youths filling up their backpacks with store items and running off laughing. They don't even run more than a block before slowing down to walk because they know nothing will happen. Thousands of dollars of items are taken but because of the new law where theft under $1000 per person is considered a misdemeanor, nothing happens. I talked with the merchant and she said that the poli…
i'm completely against locking them up and ruining their lives for what in most cases is just a [stupid] fun for them. We do know that the brain of teenager is biologically flawed to correctly estimate risks/consequences of things like that. Yet it is the duty of society to help correct the flaw and teach them a lesson. I think something like allowing store owners to shoot using salt charges (an old USSR method for situations like this, no serious injury, yet supposed to be very painful for a few days) will make these youngsters running much faster and laughing less :)
In more general - while corporal punishment is an unquestionably bad thing on its own, when it comes to the choice of corporal punishment vs. situation of 2nd graders already having a rap sheet, i'm not sure what is better for society long-term.
Re: The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted
#78In SF I've seen first-hand groups of youths filling up their backpacks with store items and running off laughing. They don't even run more than a block before slowing down to walk because they know nothing will happen. Thousands of dollars of items are taken but because of the new law where theft under $1000 per person is considered a misdemeanor, nothing happens. I talked with the merchant and she said that the poli…
Just because something is a misdemeanor doesn't mean nothing happens. If you are convicted with a misdemeanor you still cam get a fine, community service, probation (and violating parole IS a felony), and even a jail sentence of up to 12 months. For theft of less than $1000 that sounds like a perfectly reasonable punishment. I don't know why police aren't responding to these calls, but it's not because those committi…
I think because for decades so many crimes were potential felonies that police and prosecutors used the misdemeanor/felony dividing line to systemize the allocation of resources--prosecute felonies, ignore misdemeanors. Most of these felonies were ultimately prosecuted as misdemeanors through plea arrangements, which shows another aspect of the system: heavy potential penalties made it easier to secure pleas, which reinforced reliance on felonies to filter prosecutions.
Now that penalties are actually fair, police and prosecutors need to change their habits. But they haven't, despite the fact that they'll openly admit they won't prosecute the exact same crimes they once did.
It's perverse and there's no excuse for it. Felonies may have made it easier to secure plea deals, but misdemeanors are easier to prosecute from a technical perspective[1] and because of the lower penalty easier to secure plea deals closer to the maximum sentence. It's an open question whether they're cheap enough, but nobody has yet even bothered to suggest it's not practical, let alone prove it or show that there aren't measures we could take to streamline enforcement.
[1] More safeguards in place to ensure fair trial when felonies are involved. Compare traffic court, where indigent aren't even guaranteed counsel. Indeed, counsel for indigent defendants is only required by the Federal constitution for potential sentences of 6 months or longer. First offense shoplifting kids could theoretically be swiftly prosecuted in the blink of an eye (especially given camera evidence), though in some states that may require changes in the law as defendant protections were often fashioned in the context of insane penalties for common offenses.
Re: The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just because something is a misdemeanor doesn't mean nothing happens. If you are convicted with a misdemeanor you still cam get a fine, community service, probation (and violating parole IS a felony), and even a jail sentence of up to 12 months. For theft of less than $1000 that sounds like a perfectly reasonable punishment. I don't know why police aren't responding to these calls, but it's not because those committi…
In San Francisco at least, it really does mean nothing happens. There have been instances of stabbings (non-lethal) and the perpetrator was spotted in public days later.
Re: The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
Another possibility is that lead has been removed from the ecosystem, leading to less violence. It's probably worth being skeptical of that hypothesis, since it seems too perfect, but it does exist.
And it’s a good read too. https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2016/02/lead-exposur...