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The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted

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Re: The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a problem with the law. Prop 47, specifically. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_47_(201...

A misdemeanor can still result in up to 12 months of jail time, though...

On paper, I would agree with you that up to 12 months of jail time for a relatively minor crime like shoplifting is reasonable. In practice, it appears the result of the new law is that the police don't bother showing up and property crime essentially isn't enforced.

Re: The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted

#52
post #49
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So maybe make throwing someone in jail not cost a million.

We could bring back large-scale public executions. Make the punishment for shoplifting being tortured to death in a public square, and the cost of prison will go down. Sounds shocking to you? It used to be the standard in the Western world, until just a couple of centuries ago.

I mean there are places where removing a hand is still the standard, and it reduces but doesn't end crime.

Re: The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted

#53
post #3

Steven Pinker talks about the root causes for this in Better Angels of Our Nature . He argues that crime has been trending steadily downward for centuries. There was a blip of increasing crime, at odds with the trends, that lasted from about the early 1960s to the late 1980s, and he offers some explanations for that blip. But in general, crime should continue to fall. The US homocide rate has been dropping steadily s…

Peter Turchin points to a blip in violence in the 1970's, and the 1920's (think Prohibition), and maybe also the 1870's. These are on top of a long-term downward trend, though.

Re: The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted

#54

In SF I've seen first-hand groups of youths filling up their backpacks with store items and running off laughing. They don't even run more than a block before slowing down to walk because they know nothing will happen. Thousands of dollars of items are taken but because of the new law where theft under $1000 per person is considered a misdemeanor, nothing happens. I talked with the merchant and she said that the poli…

Do we really need to throw shoplifting kids into prison, which will only serve as a training school for worse crime? Stores have insurance for this kind of loss.

Re: The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted

#55
The one thing I didn't see mentioned in any of this is, are we certain that we're not just sending underaged kids to regular prison? I would like to think not, but if we're charging them as adults...

But hopefully that's not something we do. Right?

Re: The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted

#56

In SF I've seen first-hand groups of youths filling up their backpacks with store items and running off laughing. They don't even run more than a block before slowing down to walk because they know nothing will happen. Thousands of dollars of items are taken but because of the new law where theft under $1000 per person is considered a misdemeanor, nothing happens. I talked with the merchant and she said that the poli…

Property crime is rampant in a lot of the Bay Area. Violent crime has hit historic lows. I've learned to never keep valuables in your car and always lock your doors, but I also feel safe walking around in a number of places that historically have had really bad reputations, like even the Tenderloin. I wouldn't be so quick to blame changes in laws, though. In my experience, property crime is up because the police don'…

What incentives cause police to care about stumbling drunk people but not petty theft or property crimes?

Are they rewarded for arresting drunk people?

Re: The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted

#57

In SF I've seen first-hand groups of youths filling up their backpacks with store items and running off laughing. They don't even run more than a block before slowing down to walk because they know nothing will happen. Thousands of dollars of items are taken but because of the new law where theft under $1000 per person is considered a misdemeanor, nothing happens. I talked with the merchant and she said that the poli…

Do we really need to throw shoplifting kids into prison, which will only serve as a training school for worse crime? Stores have insurance for this kind of loss.

Sliding down the slope means replacing insurance with government, and turning this into a type of basic income. Let people take what they want from the store, and pay the store back with taxes.

Re: The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted

#58

In SF I've seen first-hand groups of youths filling up their backpacks with store items and running off laughing. They don't even run more than a block before slowing down to walk because they know nothing will happen. Thousands of dollars of items are taken but because of the new law where theft under $1000 per person is considered a misdemeanor, nothing happens. I talked with the merchant and she said that the poli…

Do we really need to throw shoplifting kids into prison, which will only serve as a training school for worse crime? Stores have insurance for this kind of loss.

Why are the only two options "do nothing" and "throw them in prison"? Shouldn't there be a middle ground here?

Re: The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted

#60

In SF I've seen first-hand groups of youths filling up their backpacks with store items and running off laughing. They don't even run more than a block before slowing down to walk because they know nothing will happen. Thousands of dollars of items are taken but because of the new law where theft under $1000 per person is considered a misdemeanor, nothing happens. I talked with the merchant and she said that the poli…

Also why doorstep package theft has dramatically increased - it is now a catch-and-release crime.
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