Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#141

Post by Kalium » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 1:00 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #52

Kalium wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it perhaps possible that your priorities might not find a reflection in all hearts? Many people do not regard the time, energy, and resources that go into the logistics of managing many vendors to be good investments for them. This can be compared to distributed computing, somewhat distributed manufacturing, distributed government, and diversified financial portfolios. Each of the items you so correctly, wisely, a…

Many people do not regard the time, energy, and resources that go into the logistics of managing many vendors to be good investments for them I don't disagree with this at all. I was one of those people for many years. But more and more I'm not that person anymore. I don't think it's a good thing that one method (the all-centralized Amazon/Wal-Mart/Costco/Meijer hypermarket) be elevated to the status that it has, whe…

Is it perhaps possible that Amazon has been so very successful because they have indeed added value by reducing the personal logistics required of a great many people? Coupling that with equivalent or better prices is a substantial addition of value, rather than predatory, in the eyes of many.

From personal experiences, I do not view taking the time out of my day to go to the household goods store for toilet paper, paying 10% more than Amazon charges, and transporting it home to be of greater value than Amazon's offering. Of course, there are exceptional scenarios where this might shift (e.g., out of toilet paper), but I expect a great many people would agree with my approach. I understand you and some others may prefer to pay extra in both money and time with your local generic housewares vendor.

You're absolutely right that other approaches have value to some people. It may be worth considering that not all people are likely to agree with the status-seeking behavior patterns of the hipsters, even when they take the form of favoring things purportedly thoughtful.

And obviously - so obviously I thought it never needed to be said by anyone - no business model should ever be deified. We do seem to be at a local maximum in some ways, that's all.

Incidentally, where would you draw the line between "tech company" and "company that's really, really good at developing, deploying, and gaining economic efficiencies from technology"?

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#142

Post by jedrek » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 1:32 PM UTC

MrLeap wrote: post #63

GenericsMotors wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because crypto is only useful insofar as it can be converted into useful fiat currencies, which means that it can be tracked.

Tons of bullion exchanges will allow you to buy precious metals with cryptocoin. How trackable is it if someone uses a new wallet for each transaction, and has their gold bars shipped to model homes and abandoned property within ~25-50 miles of their location? If you're speaking in absolutes, you're not using your imagination! I can think of tons of schemes to anonymously extract real world spending power from crypto…

Well, by doing that you go from maybe breaking an NDA to mail fraud, but w/e.

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#143

Post by jkingsbery » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 1:51 PM UTC

clubm8 wrote: post #14

> The practice, which violates company policy, is particularly pronounced in China, according to some of these people, because the number of sellers there is skyrocketing. As well, Amazon employees in China have relatively small salaries, which emboldens them to take risks. Sounds like Amazon is finding out the hard way that you need to pay for trust , not just skill. When you pay the absolute bare minimum to your em…

(Disclaimer: I'm an Amazon employee, but I can only speak my own opinion on this matter.)

A couple factual problems with this: first, the employees that have access to this sort of data are in white collar roles, and are hardly being paid "absolute bare minimum." Second, when Amazon interviews employees, we ask about our Leadership Principles (https://www.amazon.jobs/principles), one of which actually is that leaders "Earn Trust." Trust is absolutely something we look for in employees.

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#144

Post by electroly » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 2:54 PM UTC

perl4ever wrote: post #110

paulcole wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can it possibly be below minimum?

I found no evidence they are paid less than minimum wage, but I did find some claims casino-goers in the US are expected to tip cashiers, so perhaps the assumption is they are paid a tipped minimum wage instead of a regular one? That is not how jobs seem to be advertised though.

That is absolutely not true about tipping cashiers. I would disregard whatever source claimed that.

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#145

Post by asdf1234tx » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 3:42 PM UTC

On a some what related note, I read that google allows people to read my email. Google itself, and third parties.

I've got friends who store important authentication, financial, and legal information in their emails.

Makes me wonder about some of the btc thefts where the vector was never determined, and the victim was fairly competent.

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#146

Post by asdf1234tx » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 3:46 PM UTC

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #111

sonnyblarney wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coercion it used all the time. Castro would send his doctors abroad, getting them paid handsomely by aid agencies and he'd take the lion's share of their income, and he'd get away with it by holding the doctor's family de-facto ransom. The Chinese government is known to do this. There's a missing item: 'Duty + Guilt'. Governments will use a softer form of this coercion whilst trying to imbue a sense of national duty…

That's not Coercion in this context, it's Money. Think more along the lines of Honeypot and blackmail when you think Coercion in this sense.

It may be money for Castro, but we're talking about identifying an actor using MICE. The original poster was correct, the actor was being coerced. Don't over think it.

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#147

Post by carapace » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 4:25 PM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #135

carapace wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also culture. https://pando.com/2014/01/23/the-techtopus-how-silicon-valle... > In early 2005 ... Apple's Steve Jobs sealed a secret and illegal pact with Google's Eric Schmidt to artificially push their workers wages lower by agreeing not to recruit each other's employees, sharing wage scale information, and punishing violators. > ...an estimated $9 billion effectively stolen...

That's still a policy failure -- poor enforcement/deterrence in that case rather than poor legislation, but still. And even to the extent that it is cultural, the policy informs the culture. If Eric Schmidt went to jail over that, would it happen again?

Apple at least sits on a huge pile of cash, yet Jobs colluded to steal billions from his own employees, the very folks who made the whole thing possible. You can't police that sort of sickness, it won't be healed by passing the right laws.

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#148

Post by taurath » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 6:09 PM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #134

taurath wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Similarly, it's plausible that minimum wage laws actually depress wages. An unskilled worker or college student isn't legally permitted to accept a $4/hour internship, but may not be able to find one that pays any more than that I think the people who can “afford” to take a $4/hr internship is the same cohort that could take a free internship. The rest need enough wages to live off of.

> I think the people who can “afford” to take a $4/hr internship is the same cohort that could take a free internship. Except that there are now a bunch of restrictions on unpaid internships that have caused companies to increasingly stop having them. And even that is still a problem for the people who could "afford" to take a $4/hr internship but not a $0/hr one. And even the ones who suffer being unpaid are still d…

> And even that is still a problem for the people who could "afford" to take a $4/hr internship but not a $0/hr one. And even the ones who suffer being unpaid are still deprived of the extra $4/hr they could have had.

Let me put it more bluntly - rich kids are the ones taking the unpaid internships. Nobody can survive off of a $4/hr internship. The $4/hr might as well be $.50 an hour.

> In which case, why do they not take a different position that pays more?

They will, but its worse for their careers in most cases. Unpaid internships tend to give much better career progression - you just need to have the money to be able to survive it. Thats why they're restricting unpaid internships - if you want to offer them you can't just offer them to wealthy people's kids.

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#149

Post by AnthonyMouse » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 6:35 PM UTC

taurath wrote: post #148

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the people who can “afford” to take a $4/hr internship is the same cohort that could take a free internship. Except that there are now a bunch of restrictions on unpaid internships that have caused companies to increasingly stop having them. And even that is still a problem for the people who could "afford" to take a $4/hr internship but not a $0/hr one. And even the ones who suffer being unpaid are still d…

> And even that is still a problem for the people who could "afford" to take a $4/hr internship but not a $0/hr one. And even the ones who suffer being unpaid are still deprived of the extra $4/hr they could have had. Let me put it more bluntly - rich kids are the ones taking the unpaid internships. Nobody can survive off of a $4/hr internship. The $4/hr might as well be $.50 an hour. > In which case, why do they not…

> Let me put it more bluntly - rich kids are the ones taking the unpaid internships. Nobody can survive off of a $4/hr internship. The $4/hr might as well be $.50 an hour.

What you're really saying is that $4/hr might as well be zero. But it's different -- by $4/hr. There is not a brick wall separating rich kids from poor kids, it's a wide spectrum. There are lots of in between kids who could swing $4/hr but can't get away with working for free.

> They will, but its worse for their careers in most cases.

Then why are you advocating forcing them into that? If the choice was $4/hr now for $50/hr later vs. $10/hr now for $10/hr forever, how is taking away the first option supposed to help them?

> Thats why they're restricting unpaid internships - if you want to offer them you can't just offer them to wealthy people's kids.

Except that the wealthy people's kids are the ones whose parents have the influence to get them a paid internship, or at least one of the few remaining unpaid ones after the others are destroyed, so all you're really doing is screwing over the people in the middle.

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#150

Post by AnthonyMouse » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 6:45 PM UTC

carapace wrote: post #147

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's still a policy failure -- poor enforcement/deterrence in that case rather than poor legislation, but still. And even to the extent that it is cultural, the policy informs the culture. If Eric Schmidt went to jail over that, would it happen again?

Apple at least sits on a huge pile of cash, yet Jobs colluded to steal billions from his own employees, the very folks who made the whole thing possible. You can't police that sort of sickness, it won't be healed by passing the right laws.

Laws won't work but asking nicely will?

They can't steal from you if they're in prison.