Can you explain what “left-leaning” has to do with it?
Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off
211–220 of 1001 posts
Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
why write tests? why improve ux or ui? why help with documentation? > I mean if you can't contribute code why simply mess around with things like the Code of Conduct. there are many more parts to a community, even a community of developers, than just contributing code.
>why write tests? why improve ux or ui? why help with documentation? Because these actually improve the project.
Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off
#213Oh dear. So they finally got to him. First Guido, now Linus. If some "nice person" would write a better free operating system I'd be all over it. But Linus is one of the people that has made it possible for me to not only run a free operating system, but the best system in the world. The people who criticise and attack Linus are the one who don't understand us. They don't understand what this software means to us.
Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's a bit difficult to explain, but I'll try. In the current political climate, the left and the right have been divided by the public consciousness into the following dichotomy: The left is overly sensitive and looks for things to be offended by. The right is concerned with maturity and personal responsibility and anti-political correctness, where those things are defined primarily in contrast to the left's perceiv…
> The left is overly sensitive and looks for things to be offended by. This is total nonsense. In the modern political climate everyone is looking for things to be offended by. (It just happens that the “left” is offended by people getting beat up, sexually harassed, prevented from exercising their basic rights, etc., whereas the “right” is offended by the phrase “happy holidays”, by trans-gender people using one bat…
Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Linus was forceful at times, but his focus was on the work, not on trying to make people feel bad. It may have started this way when he began one of his emails, but even he admits the attacks often went from “let me critique your contribution” to “here’s why your contribution sucks and beyond that here’s why I think you suck as a contributor”.
Being all patronizing and snooty about somebody making a total noob of themselves can be a lot worse!
Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off
#216Can you explain what “left-leaning” has to do with it?
It's a bit difficult to explain, but I'll try. In the current political climate, the left and the right have been divided by the public consciousness into the following dichotomy: The left is overly sensitive and looks for things to be offended by. The right is concerned with maturity and personal responsibility and anti-political correctness, where those things are defined primarily in contrast to the left's perceiv…
> The right is concerned with maturity and personal responsibility and anti-political correctness, where those things are defined primarily in contrast to the left's perceived over-sensitivity.
I think this is the right's perspective, but it's not an accurate portrayal of the left's. I therefore disagree with the assertion that this is a fair representation of the "public consciousness" on this issue.
I'd say the left views it this way:
The left's goal is to include people who have historically been oppressed or ostracized, and to increase empathy and raise the bar for what is appropriate and professional to exclude behavior that hurts people, even if it has previously been considered acceptable.
The right's goal is to maintain the status quo and the structures and hierarchies of power (which disproportionately benefit them) and to put down any attempts to change it as "oversensitive snowflakes overreacting" instead of as well-intentioned people trying to make the world better.
To be clear - I see things as more aligned with the left's perspective in reality. But I also see so-called "snowflakes" on both sides, insofar as people are unable to take or manage fair criticism reasonably offered when it challenges their viewpoints. I vehemently disagree with the idea that adapting a code of conduct is either inherently political or, if it is, inherently left-leaning, except to the extent that various sides try to cast it that way.
Edit: On reconsideration: If you view a code of conduct that tries to equalize people and prohibit certain kinds of language the left would consider "oppressive" (e. g. sexist, racist, ageist, ableist) as inherently political, then I see the argument. But I still don't agree completely, insofar as people working together shouldn't need to insult each other to do so appropriately.
Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
Very true. I remember when one of the kernel maintainers announced why she was going to stop contributing, one of the reasons listed was "Linus has advocated physical abuse of kernel maintainers." Looking at the email that was given as evidence though, Linus told one of the maintainers something like "You're over 6 feet tall, if the contributors won't give you their patches in time to be merged, say you'll smash them…
Saying that "Linus has advocated physical abuse" based on that statement is completely disingenuous. It's an absurd interpretation. It was obviously humor and it wasn't insulting either. There are several cases where Linus went way over the top with insults, but throwing him under the bus because of that statement is ridiculous. That's the whole problem with these CoCs, if people get to apply the most uncharitable in…
Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
> People can be ruthless without being abusive. Everybody has a different conviction about what is abusive and what is not.
One of Linus's more colorful rants: "Of course, I'd also suggest that whoever was the genius who thought it was a good idea to read things ONE F CKING BYTE AT A TIME with system calls for each byte should be retroactively aborted. Who the f ck does idiotic things like that? How did they noty die as babies, considering that they were likely too stupid to find a tit to suck on?"
Maybe he needs a creative writing hobby of some sort as an outlet to help keep such glorious color out of his professional emails. (I'm totally serious and would email him the suggestion if I didn't think it a waste of time because I don't know the man, he doesn't know me, yadda.)
Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off
#219Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The left is overly sensitive and looks for things to be offended by. This is total nonsense. In the modern political climate everyone is looking for things to be offended by. (It just happens that the “left” is offended by people getting beat up, sexually harassed, prevented from exercising their basic rights, etc., whereas the “right” is offended by the phrase “happy holidays”, by trans-gender people using one bat…
You can easily find just as, and more, ridiculous examples on the left. Offended by jokes, tshirts, suggestions that unborn children's lives have value, praise of Israel, using biologically and factually correct terms for people, suggestions that people shouldn't be discriminated against, pointing out scientific/genetic facts, ...
Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off
#220Earlier quoted context omitted.
> As opposed to success via being polite and flattering while being wrong. > And rudeness can be very called for in response to evil. You have constructed quite the strawman to argue against the myth, well done.
The point being that rude isn't evil in itself although it may be inappropriate. The proper response to someone wanting to hold a klan meeting in your house is "get the hell out". Rudeness is a feedback mechanism. The point being that while less than ideal it isn't unsuccessful in itself. Extremes are useful for extrapolation - even if it will never reach that point it is helpful to have the worst in mind to be vigil…