Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

aeon.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 285 posts

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#61

Post by rhapsodic »

DanAndersen wrote: post #16

The article raises good points about the need for formal societal taboos against constant work. The ideal (often violated, though) in our modern society of the "40-hour week" as a reasonable amount is one of them. Having regular times for contemplation and separation from the bustle of the world is important. The gig economy has dangers in it. There's a liberating aspect in that people "can choose their own hours," b…

> The article raises good points about the need for formal societal taboos against constant work. The ideal (often violated, though) in our modern society of the "40-hour week" as a reasonable amount is one of them. Having regular times for contemplation and separation from the bustle of the world is important.

It may be important for you, Dan, but it's not important for me. Please, don't try to impose any more "formal societal taboos" on me. I've really had a bellyful of them. It seems like everyday there's a new one.

There is nothing stopping you from choosing a path in life that allows you plenty of time for "contemplation and separation from the bustle of the world." So go ahead and choose your own path, and let me choose mine.

Fair enough?

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#62

Post by emodendroket »

ido wrote: post #49
emodendroket wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do wish, though, that the article fully grappled with the issue of the 'shabbos goy.' It praises the virtues of having everyone able to participate in a time of separation from work, but then there's this practice where the conveniences of life are still indulged in by having an outsider labor for you. I'd say the traditional Christian concept of the sabbath is looser and doesn't really require this kind of thing…

In effect I'd say that it is an attitude more concerned with the spirit and less with the letter of the law (so, for instance, I don't think turning on the light is an issue, and putting money on the table for someone to take isn't actually adhering to the prohibition on commerce). That's something that generally rubs me the wrong way about a lot of things with orthodox jewish practices (especially the ultra orthodox…

I mean, I can't lie -- it sometimes seems appealing compared to the constant, gnawing sense that you might not be doing things good enough that comes with Christianity.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#63

Post by s73v3r_ »

natalyarostova wrote: post #31
DanAndersen wrote: post #16

The article raises good points about the need for formal societal taboos against constant work. The ideal (often violated, though) in our modern society of the "40-hour week" as a reasonable amount is one of them. Having regular times for contemplation and separation from the bustle of the world is important. The gig economy has dangers in it. There's a liberating aspect in that people "can choose their own hours," b…

>where it's in everyone's immediate individual interest to work just a little bit longer, but the end result is that everyone has to work more for the same reward If everyone is working more, more value is being created in total. So it's not zero-sum. You might then say "Yes, sure, but is working more hours to buy more things really better than a culture where we work less and spend more time eating dinner with our f…

"If everyone is working more, more value is being created in total."

That's not necessarily true, and more importantly, even if it is, most of that value is not going to the people doing the actual work.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#64

Post by [deleted] »

jeffdavis wrote: post #32
rgbrenner wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't pretty much any historical text also historical evidence? No. People make up stories. Obviously. Harry potter isn't historical evidence of the magical abilities of past humans.

People can make up stories on the witness stand, too. Testimony is still evidence, it just that it needs to be weighed in context by a jury (along with all the other evidence). In the future, when humans just upload data directly to brains, and nobody remembers what a school is, then Harry Potter absolutely could be used as historical evidence that schools existed and that children went to them. The fantastical bit a…

[deleted]

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#65

Post by Animats »

ido wrote: post #49
emodendroket wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do wish, though, that the article fully grappled with the issue of the 'shabbos goy.' It praises the virtues of having everyone able to participate in a time of separation from work, but then there's this practice where the conveniences of life are still indulged in by having an outsider labor for you. I'd say the traditional Christian concept of the sabbath is looser and doesn't really require this kind of thing…

In effect I'd say that it is an attitude more concerned with the spirit and less with the letter of the law (so, for instance, I don't think turning on the light is an issue, and putting money on the table for someone to take isn't actually adhering to the prohibition on commerce). That's something that generally rubs me the wrong way about a lot of things with orthodox jewish practices (especially the ultra orthodox…

Yes. A whole collection of hardware has been developed to weasel out of the religious restrictions. There are "shabbos elevators", which not only stop on every floor (no button pushing), but bypass regenerative braking and dump the energy into a big resistor so as not to "do work". There's the "kosher light switch."[1] This looks like a regular light switch, and performs the same function. But it works by sensing the position of the switch with an optical interrupter at random intervals. So there's a random delay between throwing the switch and having it operate. This is apparently theologically acceptable, because there is not a direct cause and effect relationship.

For the kids, there are non-electrical devices made to look like hand-held video games.[2]

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdbkvJznmwU [2] http://www.kosherimage.com/watergame.html

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#67

Post by emodendroket »

Animats wrote: post #65
ido wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In effect I'd say that it is an attitude more concerned with the spirit and less with the letter of the law (so, for instance, I don't think turning on the light is an issue, and putting money on the table for someone to take isn't actually adhering to the prohibition on commerce). That's something that generally rubs me the wrong way about a lot of things with orthodox jewish practices (especially the ultra orthodox…

Yes. A whole collection of hardware has been developed to weasel out of the religious restrictions. There are "shabbos elevators", which not only stop on every floor (no button pushing), but bypass regenerative braking and dump the energy into a big resistor so as not to "do work". There's the "kosher light switch."[1] This looks like a regular light switch, and performs the same function. But it works by sensing the…

To be fair, if the law itself is what is important you can see the logic in doing this. It is a way of thinking that is not my own but it has a certain internal consistency.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#68

Post by bigpicture »

Animats wrote: post #65
ido wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In effect I'd say that it is an attitude more concerned with the spirit and less with the letter of the law (so, for instance, I don't think turning on the light is an issue, and putting money on the table for someone to take isn't actually adhering to the prohibition on commerce). That's something that generally rubs me the wrong way about a lot of things with orthodox jewish practices (especially the ultra orthodox…

Yes. A whole collection of hardware has been developed to weasel out of the religious restrictions. There are "shabbos elevators", which not only stop on every floor (no button pushing), but bypass regenerative braking and dump the energy into a big resistor so as not to "do work". There's the "kosher light switch."[1] This looks like a regular light switch, and performs the same function. But it works by sensing the…

My oven, which is just a plain old GE oven, has a feature in which you set the temperature and cook time, and it will randomly turn on, cook for the prescribed time, and then turn off.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#69

Post by Crisco »

eco wrote: post #53

Here in Utah it is very common for local businesses to be closed on the sabbath and there is strong cultural pressure among Mormons to not work or do anything that would cause someone to have to work on Sunday (e.g., shopping and going out to eat, though some take it even further by abstaining from things like online shopping or even watching television). I don't see us headed in that direction though. It's it's beco…

I was also raised in a very Mormon influenced area (East Idaho). I'm still active and believing, but one of the things I do that's more for myself than because of cultural or religious belief is observe the Sabbath. I don't work or do school work and avoid most activities I normally do any other day. Sunday has become my favorite day. I don't worry about the coming week and can truly relax. That isn't to say I don't do anything, some Sundays I'm quite busy, but my activities are usually unrelated to my normal interests, hobbies, or daily life

I think everyone, religious or not, can benefit from having one day a week to truly separate themselves from both the daily grind and from what usually occupies their headspace.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#70

Post by detaro »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #30
noja wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you German? If not, what do the Germans think of this?

Nope, just moved here a couple years ago from the states. Most people I know here seem to think it's annoying, but I work at Google, so we got people from all over, I don't think Germans are even a majority of the devs. edit: apparently 61% of Germans think stores should be able to decide themselves whether to open on Sundays: http://m.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/service/einzelhandel-mehrheit...

I'd be curious if and how those numbers change when it is instead "companies should be able to decide themselves if they are open on Sundays".

Anecdotally, that question complicates it for quite a few people, despite probably being the fairer change.

Post reply on HN