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Britain Is Poorer Than Any US State (2014)

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81–90 of 110 posts

Re: Britain Is Poorer Than Any US State (2014)

#81
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahh, HN, where someone doing a good deed is an illustration of how the United States is secretly a third-world hellhole.

It isn't a good deed when the deed is something that every other developed country expects from society as the most basic right.

> every other developed country expects from society as the most basic right

But they're wrong, at least by the American definition of a "right". We understand a "right" to be synonymous with a "liberty" or a "freedom"--things you're allowed to do, not things others must do for you. Unfortunately healthcare is something that someone else must do for you. Saying you have a right to it is saying you have a right to someone else's labor, or someone else's money to pay for it.

Of couse, even though healthcare isn't a right, maybe universal healthcare is worth implementing as a public service, like roads or a military. But maybe not--that debate is still unsettled in the United States. I suspect this is because we have at least one political party that actively resists framing it as "free healthcare". It is of course not free--it is taxpayer funded, and there are costs and tradeoffs associated with that that we have to honestly consider. If other Western countries have decided that universal healthcare is worthwhile for them, then so be it, but it does not follow that it is necessarily the correct course of action for the United States.

Re: Britain Is Poorer Than Any US State (2014)

#82
post #14

"In the US food is generally cheaper than it is in Europe, medical care generally more expensive." I'm not sure when medical care is cheaper in the US. Within the VA system, maybe? Also, the ranking does not stack up against wikipedia figures: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP_per... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)... (Where PPP is already accounted for, so this guy…

> I'm not sure when medical care is cheaper in the US You literally just quoted the article saying it's more expensive in the US. > In the US ... medical care generally more expensive

generally = sometimes it is less expensive. I guess it wasn't clear, but my point was that healthcare is on average much more expensive in the US.

Re: Britain Is Poorer Than Any US State (2014)

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they tend to release detailed, well sourced, and accurate articles?

They actually don't do any of that. Can you link me to 1 article that matches all of your own criteria? Bonus points for that article withstanding the test of time.

Sure they do! I would just refer you to the CATO site to have your pick of thoughtful, well researched articles. Now you run off and have a read and come back with a link if you find a specific article that doesn't meet your specifications.

Re: Britain Is Poorer Than Any US State (2014)

#84
post #70
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inequality is one thing, but the US is still a wealthy country.

> a wealthy country Who is the country in this context though, does GDP mean the people are wealthier?

The wealth of a country is a question of what resources it has, public and private, not how they are distributed. Saying that "everyone" is broke misses the point that it's inequality that is getting worse.

Re: Britain Is Poorer Than Any US State (2014)

#85
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't a good deed when the deed is something that every other developed country expects from society as the most basic right.

> every other developed country expects from society as the most basic right But they're wrong, at least by the American definition of a "right". We understand a "right" to be synonymous with a "liberty" or a "freedom"--things you're allowed to do, not things others must do for you. Unfortunately healthcare is something that someone else must do for you. Saying you have a right to it is saying you have a right to som…

As an American, I consider a "right" to be something owed to you by other people. The "Bill of Rights" is "the Bill of things the government owes you". So, when I say "Healthcare is a right" I mean that "healthcare is something that the government owes to its people".

The debate is unsettled in the United States, correct. We have one party that actively believes that letting people who would otherwise not die is okay. In fact, some people in this party believe that letting people die who would otherwise not die is a moral good.

There are other unsettled debates in the United States. Climate change is an example. So is the evolution. A debate being "unsettled" doesn't tell you much about the debate, but in the context of every other country having settled on the issue, it may tell us that whoever professes to believe the opposite isn't acting in good faith.

Re: Britain Is Poorer Than Any US State (2014)

#86
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sure we’d all vastly prefer to be the person who works an hour for $100 and has the rest as free time. If those two people have equal “richness” then the term is not very useful.

If you're suggesting that wealth/income is different than quality of life, I would have to very strongly agree.

When basic necessities are met ( infrastructure, health, sanitation, education, food, housing, security) there are diminishing returns for an individual to work harder. I'd also add that per capita is a bad measure because of the skewed income distribution. Median is a better metric here.

Re: Britain Is Poorer Than Any US State (2014)

#87
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're suggesting that wealth/income is different than quality of life, I would have to very strongly agree.

I’m going a bit further and suggesting that free time ought to be incorporated into “wealth” somehow. After all, time is money.

The great depression had a lot of people with a lot of time. "Rich with time", you might say.

Re: Britain Is Poorer Than Any US State (2014)

#88
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> every other developed country expects from society as the most basic right But they're wrong, at least by the American definition of a "right". We understand a "right" to be synonymous with a "liberty" or a "freedom"--things you're allowed to do, not things others must do for you. Unfortunately healthcare is something that someone else must do for you. Saying you have a right to it is saying you have a right to som…

As an American, I consider a "right" to be something owed to you by other people. The "Bill of Rights" is "the Bill of things the government owes you". So, when I say "Healthcare is a right" I mean that "healthcare is something that the government owes to its people". The debate is unsettled in the United States, correct. We have one party that actively believes that letting people who would otherwise not die is okay…

> As an American, I consider a "right" to be something owed to you by other people.

You can consider it whatever you like. You can consider the moon to be made of cheese. You're wrong, unless you have some basis for this statement. If so, let's hear it.

> The "Bill of Rights" is "the Bill of things the government owes you".

That is absolutely incorrect. It's the "Bill of things the government can't do" or the "Bill of things the government cannot stop you from doing". Name one thing that the Bill of Rights says the government has to provide you, other than a fair trial with representation, which is an implementation detail of the idea that they can't unilaterally decide to incarcerate or otherwise punish you. Go ahead, I'll wait.

> We have one party that actively believes that letting people who would otherwise not die is okay. In fact, some people in this party believe that letting people die who would otherwise not die is a moral good.

> whoever professes to believe the opposite isn't acting in good faith.

And now I realize we can't actually have a productive conversation about this, because you presume that the only reason anyone could possibly disagree with you is because they're morally deficient. You're not interested in the other side of the debate.

Re: Britain Is Poorer Than Any US State (2014)

#89
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American, I consider a "right" to be something owed to you by other people. The "Bill of Rights" is "the Bill of things the government owes you". So, when I say "Healthcare is a right" I mean that "healthcare is something that the government owes to its people". The debate is unsettled in the United States, correct. We have one party that actively believes that letting people who would otherwise not die is okay…

> As an American, I consider a "right" to be something owed to you by other people. You can consider it whatever you like. You can consider the moon to be made of cheese. You're wrong, unless you have some basis for this statement. If so, let's hear it. > The "Bill of Rights" is "the Bill of things the government owes you". That is absolutely incorrect. It's the "Bill of things the government can't do" or the "Bill o…

You took this thread straight into flamewar. That's not what this site is for and we ban accounts that do it.

If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and use this site as intended in the future, we'd appreciate it. That means steering away from ideological battle, not directly into it. It also means being civil in your comments.

Re: Britain Is Poorer Than Any US State (2014)

#90
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> every other developed country expects from society as the most basic right But they're wrong, at least by the American definition of a "right". We understand a "right" to be synonymous with a "liberty" or a "freedom"--things you're allowed to do, not things others must do for you. Unfortunately healthcare is something that someone else must do for you. Saying you have a right to it is saying you have a right to som…

As an American, I consider a "right" to be something owed to you by other people. The "Bill of Rights" is "the Bill of things the government owes you". So, when I say "Healthcare is a right" I mean that "healthcare is something that the government owes to its people". The debate is unsettled in the United States, correct. We have one party that actively believes that letting people who would otherwise not die is okay…

Please do not use HN for partisan battle. It's always the same, and therefore off topic here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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