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Russian spies detained in The Hague were planning cyber break-in at Swiss lab

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Re: Russian spies detained in The Hague were planning cyber break-in at Swiss lab

#81

Post by azangru »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #70
azangru wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, so what you are basically saying is that the Russians intended this assassination to be discovered and demonstrated to be a poisoning attack?

Given how these stories over the poisoning have played out it certainly looks that way. The "cover" story is comically poor, and they have plenty of people intelligent enough to do better. So short of Putin calling a press conference saying "Yup, we did it" it couldn't have been telegraphed much clearer.

> they have plenty of people intelligent enough to do better

Now, that's a very charitable assumption. I am not sure we have any evidence for that :-)

> Given how these stories over the poisoning have played out it certainly looks that way.

But that would mean that they were provoking the Western countries to give them hell. I am the first to admit that I do not hold their intellectual powers in any high esteem, but even so, even for them, this sounds outrageously insolent and stupid.

Re: Russian spies detained in The Hague were planning cyber break-in at Swiss lab

#82

Post by zipwitch »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #63
tim333 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who knows if they were carrying anything. The Novichoc bottle probably just magicked itself to Sailsbury and they were just GRU agents with passport numbers differing by one digit on a happy holiday to see the Cathedral twice. Or maybe not.

Of course they had to make a second trip. They had to abandon the first trip because of the knee deep snow. That the Met Office say didn't happen.

Well, Russians are completely unfamiliar with bad weather. The climate in Russia is always balmy, so their not used to dealing with chilly weather.

Re: Russian spies detained in The Hague were planning cyber break-in at Swiss lab

#83

Post by megous »

AlexeyParamonov wrote: post #57
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Russia is gaining power China is a rising power. Russia is a moderately-sized (between New York and Florida in GDP [1]) regional power and petrostate with shaky finances. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_between_U.S._stat...

First, I did not say we are on top, but we do gain. Second, power is not only econimics, but politics and power to stand against external threats and protect our people.

I wonder what threats Russia faces from the west?

Re: Russian spies detained in The Hague were planning cyber break-in at Swiss lab

#84

Post by wruza »

neffy wrote: post #39
AlexeyParamonov wrote: post #27

Yeah, we, Russians, are so stupid so decided to kill the guy who was in our prison several years ago (why did not we do that then?) with a top Soviet chemical weapon which is like droping a nuclear bomb to kill a single person. There is a information war happening to desecrate Russian Federation in the eyes of the world and nothing more.

That is one of the interesting things about all this - but there are also much easier ways to do false flag operations. The evidence of this and previous assassination attempts is either there´s some idiot at the top of Soviet intelligence who just has to be creative, or far more likely the whole point is to send a very public message to the rather large Russian diaspora, that no matter how far they run, Mother Russi…

To do what you describe they simply send guys from a well-known ‘republic’, which is all green light on any crime you have in your russian crime book. All russians understand this language, and there is no reason to use wmds for that. If it was a message, it must be very secret language of selected few, not for a diaspora. I really doubt that there is a thing like ‘looking over their shoulder’ since what’s the reason for that? Why not just look over all shoulders?

The fact that no one understands (or asks himself) how these irrational political actions take place at all shows that they are smarter than you may think. Or that they are just complete idiots. Choose your enemy and good luck with that. Or don’t and stay aware.

But let’s not be fooled by politics, I already feel from these hn discussions how russians are more and more viewed as monkeys with grenades and even if it wasn’t a someones goal, it was totally reached. As if it was a shame being russian, politics excluded. I’m deeply offended by this ignorance, vot.

Re: Russian spies detained in The Hague were planning cyber break-in at Swiss lab

#85

Post by golergka »

kushti wrote: post #17
heavenlyblue wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Your "logic", basically "choose your side and believe without questioning" is not appropriate for any more or less educated person, I need to say.

You're misrepresenting the parent comment's logic and are constructing a strawman argument. Why?

Re: Russian spies detained in The Hague were planning cyber break-in at Swiss lab

#86

Post by golergka »

AlexeyParamonov wrote: post #27

Yeah, we, Russians, are so stupid so decided to kill the guy who was in our prison several years ago (why did not we do that then?) with a top Soviet chemical weapon which is like droping a nuclear bomb to kill a single person. There is a information war happening to desecrate Russian Federation in the eyes of the world and nothing more.

From my first-hard experience of incompetence and incoordination of different Russian intelligence agencies and branches (mostly internal, though) - yes, "we" are that stupid. Aggressive, resourceful, but stupid indeed.

Re: Russian spies detained in The Hague were planning cyber break-in at Swiss lab

#87

Post by huhtenberg »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #76
huhtenberg wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's the TV line. This guy lived quietly in the UK and had no "Putin's beans" to spill. He did blow cover of several hundred Russian agents, but he did time for that in Russia and then he was exchanged. It is possible it was a long-delayed payback from the GRU, but, again, there is no reason for it to be made that publicly. He could've choked on a pound coin and everyone who needed to know would've gotten the…

> that's the TV line As well as the well-substantiated conclusion of several international investigations. Same reasoning for Litvinenko’s polonium tea and North Korea’s nerve agent assassination.

That reasoning in this context doesn't make any sense. That's the problem.

Re: Russian spies detained in The Hague were planning cyber break-in at Swiss lab

#88

Post by wruza »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #55
huhtenberg wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's the thing. There's no clear reason for Russians to so publicly go after this guy. They gain absolutely nothing from it. Whatever the "message" this was supposed to send, it's unclear.

> Whatever the "message" this was supposed to send, it's unclear Large numbers of former KGB and FSB agents live outside Russia. These well-publicised killings send a clear message to them about the consequences of spilling—or threatening to spill—Putin’s beans.

What interesting life we live now. You can just watch the news and feel like you’re in the middle of some cool plotted tv series. Deep history, inriguing secrets, sharp moves, old hatred. It’s also along the modern trend of being sarcastic and a little cynical.

Except that it is our real life and it clearly shown to not be like any tv show before.

Re: Russian spies detained in The Hague were planning cyber break-in at Swiss lab

#89

Post by azangru »

megous wrote: post #83
AlexeyParamonov wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, I did not say we are on top, but we do gain. Second, power is not only econimics, but politics and power to stand against external threats and protect our people.

I wonder what threats Russia faces from the west?

I wonder as well.

But for one reason or other they tend to regard eastward NATO expansion as a threat.

:shrug:

Re: Russian spies detained in The Hague were planning cyber break-in at Swiss lab

#90

Post by guilhas »

megous wrote: post #32

Quite believable. Russian gov. has a motive to interfere with OPCW investigations, and anything that can sow more doubt, fear, confusion or distraction is good as to their strategy post-Chemical attacks that gain publicity. The final report on Douma attack is yet to be released, so it would not be late to create needless problems for the investigation, and I trust OPCW to not make up stuff about hacking attempts cert…

Russians had to beg for the OPCW to go collect samples from Douma. While they were there, UK, FR, US were having fun bombing the area.

How can more Russian FUD be good for Russia? Because that is UK and US do everyday. They dont need Russia help.

Also OPCW does analysis in more than one lab.

Both Skripal and Syria chemical use theories are very weak.

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