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Russian spies detained in The Hague were planning cyber break-in at Swiss lab

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Re: Russian spies detained in The Hague were planning cyber break-in at Swiss lab

#61

Post by NeedMoreTea »

neffy wrote: post #36
azangru wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't this comment (the whole thread, really) just sarcasm?

Original comment was from Britain, so yes. But let´s face it, if the Americans realized just how often the British are being conversationally sarcastic at their expense, it wouldn´t be Russian invaders that we´d have to worry about. Fortunately the accent cues don´t seem to get picked up that often.

In fairness we're conversationally sarcastic at everyone's expense, including our own, and especially our fine politicians.

It's just that Americans miss more of it than most. :)

Re: Russian spies detained in The Hague were planning cyber break-in at Swiss lab

#62

Post by azangru »

AlexeyParamonov wrote: post #27

Yeah, we, Russians, are so stupid so decided to kill the guy who was in our prison several years ago (why did not we do that then?) with a top Soviet chemical weapon which is like droping a nuclear bomb to kill a single person. There is a information war happening to desecrate Russian Federation in the eyes of the world and nothing more.

> why did not we do that then?

I think this logic is backwards. The question of why the Russians did not kill Skripal back then has no place in establishing whether they attempted to kill him now. The question should not be why did they not kill him then, but rather why did they try to do it now (if indeed it was them who did it).

As for the information war (aka propaganda), I think that's pretty obvious (only Russia is not an innocent victim here, but also a warring party).

Re: Russian spies detained in The Hague were planning cyber break-in at Swiss lab

#63

Post by NeedMoreTea »

tim333 wrote: post #35
coldtea wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, carrying whatever some secret service said they were carrying (and which we should take their word for it) in an ongoing effort to revive the Cold War... Perhaps they even had WMDs on them...

Who knows if they were carrying anything. The Novichoc bottle probably just magicked itself to Sailsbury and they were just GRU agents with passport numbers differing by one digit on a happy holiday to see the Cathedral twice. Or maybe not.

Of course they had to make a second trip. They had to abandon the first trip because of the knee deep snow. That the Met Office say didn't happen.

Re: Russian spies detained in The Hague were planning cyber break-in at Swiss lab

#64

Post by myth_drannon »

steveharman wrote: post #6

They weren't spies, they were tourists. We get them all the time here in the UK.

Since Salisbury is the LGBT capital of UK, these were two friendly family guys on vacation... ehh, wait a sec, so they are... ? You know...

That's the current narrative Russian TV is trying to push.

Re: Russian spies detained in The Hague were planning cyber break-in at Swiss lab

#65

Post by throwaway-hn123 »

AlexeyParamonov wrote: post #57
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Russia is gaining power China is a rising power. Russia is a moderately-sized (between New York and Florida in GDP [1]) regional power and petrostate with shaky finances. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_between_U.S._stat...

First, I did not say we are on top, but we do gain. Second, power is not only econimics, but politics and power to stand against external threats and protect our people.

Fuck off back to your state sponsored troll farm.

Re: Russian spies detained in The Hague were planning cyber break-in at Swiss lab

#66

Post by azangru »

neffy wrote: post #39
AlexeyParamonov wrote: post #27

Yeah, we, Russians, are so stupid so decided to kill the guy who was in our prison several years ago (why did not we do that then?) with a top Soviet chemical weapon which is like droping a nuclear bomb to kill a single person. There is a information war happening to desecrate Russian Federation in the eyes of the world and nothing more.

That is one of the interesting things about all this - but there are also much easier ways to do false flag operations. The evidence of this and previous assassination attempts is either there´s some idiot at the top of Soviet intelligence who just has to be creative, or far more likely the whole point is to send a very public message to the rather large Russian diaspora, that no matter how far they run, Mother Russi…

Wow, so what you are basically saying is that the Russians intended this assassination to be discovered and demonstrated to be a poisoning attack?

Re: Russian spies detained in The Hague were planning cyber break-in at Swiss lab

#67

Post by elmo2you »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #53
elmo2you wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There could be several reasons for not arresting these "spies". First, there might have been just suspicions but no real evidence, something that would make prosecuting these men problematic and also cause a significant diplomatic struggle for the Dutch. Secondly, the evidence itself might expose sources and methods that the Dutch would not like to be exposed in a publicly prosecuted legal case. Third, the NRC articl…

> One of Holland's largest companies, Royal Dutch Shell, bought exclusive concession rights (for several decades to come) to natural resources in the Ukraine, most of which became inaccessible to them after the regime change in Kiev Royal Dutch Shell’s 20% interest in Rosneft [1], a Russian oil company, eclipses the its exposure to Ukraine. This has been a sticking point at every sanctions crossroads, with the Dutch…

I have to admit that I did not know that. How does Shell's interest in Rosneft make their loss in the Ukraine acceptable? I get why they don't want to jeopardize their interest in Rosneft, including "advising" the Dutch government to not adopt any sanctions that would harm it. At the same time, they still would additionally benefit from regaining access to the east of the Ukraine. Or are those two goals mutually exclusive? If so, I don't (yet) see how.

Re: Russian spies detained in The Hague were planning cyber break-in at Swiss lab

#68

Post by maze-le »

yAnonymous wrote: post #34
jstanley wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He wasn't suggesting that they actually had WMDs on them. He was drawing parallels to a high-profile previous instance of government officials lying about "enemies" in an effort to create support for wars that further their own ends. But I think you knew that.

He did however suggest that the UK, Dutch and Swiss agencies can't be trusted in this case, which is beyond laughable. It implies that another actor would have tried to kill former Russian agents and UK citizens with a chemical weapon. Why would anyone in the west go to such lengths to frame Russia in this? It'd be like kicking a kid that's on the ground. They have nothing to gain from it. Adding to that, the bluntne…

As member of the public, you should never trust intelligence agencies about anything. Disinformation of the public is part of their job description. If you are a member of the executive or the military, then it might be something different, because these agencies exist to work for you. Everyone else, not so much...

Re: Russian spies detained in The Hague were planning cyber break-in at Swiss lab

#69

Post by lucozade »

myth_drannon wrote: post #64
steveharman wrote: post #6

They weren't spies, they were tourists. We get them all the time here in the UK.

Since Salisbury is the LGBT capital of UK, these were two friendly family guys on vacation... ehh, wait a sec, so they are... ? You know... That's the current narrative Russian TV is trying to push.

If the Russian gay community start popping over for holidays in Salisbury, they're going to be mightily disappointed [0].

[0] http://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/news/15816425.City_s_only_...

Re: Russian spies detained in The Hague were planning cyber break-in at Swiss lab

#70

Post by NeedMoreTea »

azangru wrote: post #66
neffy wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is one of the interesting things about all this - but there are also much easier ways to do false flag operations. The evidence of this and previous assassination attempts is either there´s some idiot at the top of Soviet intelligence who just has to be creative, or far more likely the whole point is to send a very public message to the rather large Russian diaspora, that no matter how far they run, Mother Russi…

Wow, so what you are basically saying is that the Russians intended this assassination to be discovered and demonstrated to be a poisoning attack?

Given how these stories over the poisoning have played out it certainly looks that way. The "cover" story is comically poor, and they have plenty of people intelligent enough to do better.

So short of Putin calling a press conference saying "Yup, we did it" it couldn't have been telegraphed much clearer.

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