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Google activated battery saving mode on multiple phones, then rolled it back

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Re: Google activated battery saving mode on multiple phones, then rolled it back

#141

Post by heinrich5991 »

enriquto wrote: post #120
B-Con wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thus is the nature of updating settings. Easy mistakes to make include: * Changing a field's default value (is that even a mistake? users might perceive it that way. Also, is there a difference between a field set to the default value and has never been changed vs a field explicitly set to the default value? Should you change it in the latter case? Did you even track the latter case?). * Overwriting a field's non-def…

> The best way to avoid settings updates it to throw it all on the user. eg, Arch Linux ... actually I prefer Slackware's way to do it: you can keep either the new or the old file, or launch vimdiff and merge them yourself

That's the way Arch Linux does it as well.

Re: Google activated battery saving mode on multiple phones, then rolled it back

#142

Post by Dylan16807 »

mankash666 wrote: post #50
muks wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would take someone with reasonable technical skills to install LineageOS as it involves unlocking the phone's bootloader (depending on the choice of phone hardware), working around any anti-rollback features by flashing, flashing TWRP recovery, and then boot into TWRP and install LineageOS, GApps and Magisk (if you want root). But the OS once installed can be used by all. Take my non-technical cousin for example w…

Well beyond reason to assume something pedestrian for you - a developer - to be "reasonable skills" for the average Joe. Do you build your own car? Or bike? Or home? Or even mattress? All of these can be done with reasonable skills, they aren't because you pay for a finished product, in most cases, for the economy to remain productive. No one ever said 'reinvent the wheel' for making progress.

This entire post is a nitpick about a single word, with the intent perfectly clear, and you should be ashamed of that.

Just pretend it says "It would take a tech enthusiast to install [...] but the OS once installed can be used by all".

Re: Google activated battery saving mode on multiple phones, then rolled it back

#143

Post by Dylan16807 »

jayd16 wrote: post #85

I'm taken aback by how many, even in this tech forum, seem surprised to learn that automatic os updates means settings can be updated automatically. Bugs are bad and all but I don't understand the "how could Google do this?!" questions. Am I missing something?

For actual OS updates on my phone, I have to initiate them on purpose.

The main problem is that this is completely bypassing updates!

Re: Google activated battery saving mode on multiple phones, then rolled it back

#144

Post by Dylan16807 »

SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #102
sandov wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's your phone, and you voluntarily allowed Google to control it. I didn't want Google to control my phone, so I installed LineageOS.

I'm also a happy LineageOS user, but it's not like they don't have a track record of this kind of thing either: https://www.androidpolice.com/2018/04/05/dont-freak-lineageo...

That wasn't initiated remotely, so I don't understand how it's "this kind of thing".

Re: Google activated battery saving mode on multiple phones, then rolled it back

#145

Post by Dylan16807 »

eh78ssxv2f wrote: post #61
remir wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between fast-software updates and turning on/off certain features without the user's consent.

> turning on/off certain features without the user's consent. I think that in practice, that applies to only the privacy sensitive features. Would you be upset if suddenly they rolled out a feature that reduced battery consumption by 10%? This particular case was obviously a bug, but I suppose every software manufacturer is continuously doing A/B testing, and 99% of time the user would not even notice. I would be sur…

> Would you be upset if suddenly they rolled out a feature that reduced battery consumption by 10%?

If they secretly installed it, of course I would be. It's not like this is the only way to deliver features...

Re: Google activated battery saving mode on multiple phones, then rolled it back

#146

Post by hardwaresofton »

amelius wrote: post #128
ticoombs wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I installed FFOS on my Nexus 4, and everything I needed from a phone, TOTP/SMS/Calling/Internet just worked. I even added SSH, nginx, and ran a webserver off it. I'm hoping for KDE Connect to come through. I want seemless integration from a mobile device to a desktop. A girl can dream

The only problem would be my banking app, which is pretty crucial.

But your bank probably has a web portal right? You could have used that, probably. I actually did that alot from my phone actually.

Re: Google activated battery saving mode on multiple phones, then rolled it back

#147

Post by amelius »

hardwaresofton wrote: post #146
amelius wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only problem would be my banking app, which is pretty crucial.

But your bank probably has a web portal right? You could have used that, probably. I actually did that alot from my phone actually.

Yes, but it is slower, and doesn't allow me to make small payments without the security token. Also, even checking the balance requires the security token with the web portal. Further, I'm sure that many banks don't have their web portal optimized for phone screens (because on a phone you are supposed to use their app).

But yes, it's a matter of convenience mostly.

Re: Google activated battery saving mode on multiple phones, then rolled it back

#148

Post by hardwaresofton »

pjmlp wrote: post #127
hardwaresofton wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as Flutter vs ChromeOS UI, I think it makes sense because of how Flutter works and how much success it's seen being used on android/iOS which reflects how much work they put into it. Flutter literally draws every pixel on the screen, and they put their army of engineers to work on rebuilding native interfaces in android[0]/iOS[1] to replicate their interfaces. The amount of control that flutter gives them is p…

Flutter original team started with former Chrome engineers and one of the first design decisions was to drop the Web UI concepts. If I am not mistaken it was Timothy Jordan that explained it on an interview. So Google, the company pushing Web UIs, including PWAs in collaboration with Microsoft, still thinks they aren't worthwhile to be the default stack on their devices. Apple and Microsoft also have UI stacks where…

Just because they decided to drop the Web UI concepts do not mean that what they chose was more powerful or the better decision in general -- it suggests it was the right decision for them.

Also, since when was Google "the" company pushing web UIs forward? Mozilla is that company in my mind -- remember the time when they made a whole mobile operating system based on it, and at the same time tried to push forwards for various parts along (WebBluetooth, other APIs)? That's what investing in the web as a platform looks like. Flutter is successful, but not in a way that plays nicely with anything else -- if you want to push a platform forward or encourage growth, doing things that play nicely with others even if they're less convenient for you is the way to go.

I'd love to be enlightened to what you think is the problem with DOM in particular that makes it not the right model -- TVML and UWP dropped the DOM, but basically replaced them with their own walled-garden re-implementations of basically the same concept. A quick look at the documentation for both and pages like collectionList[0] in TVML and the Getting Started page for UWP[1] look just like shitty HTML.

Ultimately, I can see why they would invent their own UI languages, because it means they don't have an external standard to comply with and can move pretty quickly. I think this is the major reason, not that those other markup languages they created are magically better than HTML's standard. Again, I think this is less of an indictment of HTML than it is companies trying to move as fast as they can without care for interop -- great for them, but probably bad for developers who have to learn all their little languages that are re-creations of an established standard.

[0]: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/tvml/layout_elemen...

[1]: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/get-started/con...

Re: Google activated battery saving mode on multiple phones, then rolled it back

#149

Post by bubblethink »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #143
jayd16 wrote: post #85

I'm taken aback by how many, even in this tech forum, seem surprised to learn that automatic os updates means settings can be updated automatically. Bugs are bad and all but I don't understand the "how could Google do this?!" questions. Am I missing something?

For actual OS updates on my phone, I have to initiate them on purpose. The main problem is that this is completely bypassing updates!

That is just an illusion ultimately, which you see crack in instances like these. Google play services have system level privileges. If you don't want such surprises, run AOSP.

Re: Google activated battery saving mode on multiple phones, then rolled it back

#150

Post by hardwaresofton »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #122
hardwaresofton wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as Flutter vs ChromeOS UI, I think it makes sense because of how Flutter works and how much success it's seen being used on android/iOS which reflects how much work they put into it. Flutter literally draws every pixel on the screen, and they put their army of engineers to work on rebuilding native interfaces in android[0]/iOS[1] to replicate their interfaces. The amount of control that flutter gives them is p…

>Also I want to point out that rendering and performance of web UIs could be good on phone hardware, the native implementations just have to want that to be the case. So that raises the question why Google, the king of the web, wouldn't want it.

I noted this in my other response but since when is Google the king of the web and in what way do you mean that?

Mozilla seems to do the most work trying to move the web as a platform forward.

Flutter is a system that would be impossible to create or fund unless you were at google scale, because it's massively wasteful as an idea -- it's literally a complete rendering engine and widget system built from relative scratch. It offers more flexibility than adhering to any other established UI standard, so I'm not surprised it made sense for them -- surely they can move faster with Flutter than they can by trying to support all of HTML.

There is a cost to using established standards and being held accountable to outside forces, Google just chose not to pay that tax here, which is well within their rights.

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