Earlier quoted context omitted.
FWIW, a couple of years back I had a gentleman who was a 30 year mainframe programmer in a Rails & Postgres class that I taught. He learned both, was humble enough to take an internship for a Rails job at over 50 and then turned it into full employment. Anecdotal, but I found it interesting to watch the portability of experience.
This answer is pretty telling... Thirty years of mainframe experience and at the end of it, all you're qualified for is an internship.
Millennials and Mainframes: How to Bridge the Gap
141–150 of 163 posts
Re: Millennials and Mainframes: How to Bridge the Gap
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
> because everyone running Windows reboots it regularly because of its notorious instability issues I reboot monthly because getting owned by 0 days sucks, and at this point in life, every platform (except for OpenBSD) is having new exploits found against it at a rather fair rate. Same reason my phone gets rebooted once a month. Aside from that, I have had uptime on Windows boxes in excess of 6 months. Laptops on the…
> Laptops on the other hand, those are more problematic Windows laptops. My MacBook has been up 56 days 14:06 hours.
Apple laptops have their fair share of hardware issues. Windows laptops tend to have more due to a shorter product cycle. Apple has longer relationships with their parts vendors and thus they have more time and leverage to force good firmware onto the multitudes of independent chips that make up a modern day computer.
Re: Millennials and Mainframes: How to Bridge the Gap
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
That was worth reading. capitalism's fixation on quarterly reports is ruining successful companies like DST.
That's not capitalism, it's our culture around capitalism. There is nothing inherent to capitalism that stresses short term growth vs. long term growth. For example much of the push for short term growth comes from the stock market, but the stock market (or public ownership at all) is in no way required for capitalism to work (and IMO it would probably be better without it).
It rewards people that focus on short term growth and punishes people that think long term, that sounds pretty inherent to me.
Just like the human self interest that allows capitalism to thrive short term thinking is another human quirk it exploits.
Re: Millennials and Mainframes: How to Bridge the Gap
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
> They're still cheaper Are they, though? Commodity hardware certainly is, but it's not as if cloud providers are charging a small margin on top of that. They're charging a multiple, potentially as large as 10x. Combined with the parent's proposed need of multi-cloud, that could turn what might otherwise be a few hundred $k of commodity servers into a few $M of cloud costs, which I understand is the OOM the cost of a…
Problem with IaaS clouds is that it is strictly less reliable than having your own infrastructure. With IaaS typical reliability issue is that whole location/datacenter/AZ goes down, with your own infrastructure the typical issue is that the colo-facility/datacenter goes down, which would be essentially identical save the fact that with IaaS there is significantly larger probability that the reason for going down is…
That is certainly possible for an organization to achieve, but it isn't easy and it isn't cheap. It certainly can't be taken for granted.
Re: Millennials and Mainframes: How to Bridge the Gap
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure if your argument supports your conclusion: 1) You mentioned layoffs, but you didn't mention how long it took those people to find new jobs. 2) For those who couldn't find new jobs, how many of them avoided interviews or job offers because they were unwilling to relocate? 3) How transferable are "mainframe" skills to other "mainframe" installations? (As a non-mainframe-programmer, I have no idea how much…
FWIW, a couple of years back I had a gentleman who was a 30 year mainframe programmer in a Rails & Postgres class that I taught. He learned both, was humble enough to take an internship for a Rails job at over 50 and then turned it into full employment. Anecdotal, but I found it interesting to watch the portability of experience.
Re: Millennials and Mainframes: How to Bridge the Gap
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
Problem with IaaS clouds is that it is strictly less reliable than having your own infrastructure. With IaaS typical reliability issue is that whole location/datacenter/AZ goes down, with your own infrastructure the typical issue is that the colo-facility/datacenter goes down, which would be essentially identical save the fact that with IaaS there is significantly larger probability that the reason for going down is…
It is only strictly less reliable than having your own infrastructure if you assume the same level of organizational competence at running your own infrastructure as the IaaS has at running theirs. That is certainly possible for an organization to achieve, but it isn't easy and it isn't cheap. It certainly can't be taken for granted.
I'm not sure that the competence required is organizational (e.g. people managing) so much as operational (e.g. best practices) and even technical, at least at sub-FAANMG scale.
> it isn't easy and it isn't cheap. It certainly can't be taken for granted.
I agree that it can't be taken for granted, but I disagree with it not being easy and cheap. Rather, combining the two, I don't believe it's necessarily hard nor necessarily expensive.
It just requires finding someone who both still has the competence, is willing to use it, and is willing to train others. Running your own infrastructure isn't actually difficult or complicated, but it's certainly not "sexy" and can be a bit tedious at times. That means it's possible to hire inexpensive, less (overall) experienced staff and have them handle that portion. Unfortunately, the "unsexy" part means finding someone to do the training, as well as the actual work when necessary, can be challenging, even though we're out there.
Even then, that's only necessary at substantial scale. In What can get astronomically expensive is outsourcing the wrong things, though that ends up being a form of not actually running your own infrastructure (yourself).
Anecdote: I recently had a phone interview with a startup that moved from "hardware" to the cloud and the main reason cited was the inability to ramp capacity up fast enough (nor predictably fast enough), which seemed odd to me. One example of unpredictability of lead times involved a new server underperforming due to mis-applied thermal compound between the CPU and cooler, which I have never experienced [2]. I didn't ask the rhetorical question, "how could you have picked such a horrible VAR?!" Carefully re-reading the blog post about their transition gave me my "aha" moment: even though it's a company in the SFBA, their datacenter was out of state (maybe not even in a tech hub city, but it didn't specify). They were outsourcing the actual installation, running, and maintenance of their hardware to someone else, far away.
[1] for lack of a better term.. i.e. anything that an IaaS cloud provider would eliminate, including purchasing and vendor negotiations, colo space, network hardware and providers, hardware monitoring, and data destruction
[2] well, OK, that's a lie, since I've experienced it when I've personally done CPU moves/swaps/upgrades in exceptional circumstances, when I was out of practice, but I knew to test my work and caught the problem immediately. I've never had it happen with professionally-assembled systems, presumably because CPU coolers tend to arrive with the thermal compound pre-applied.
Re: Millennials and Mainframes: How to Bridge the Gap
#147As a mainframer: IBM should make the z/OS available for free experimentation! That's the biggest obstacle and reason why people do not know it. Even the long dead Solaris has more hackers on it than z/OS. Also, millenials will also want job security and pensions, eventually. Just wait when they have kids.
As a millennial I took a pass on mainframe jobs, even though I find mainframes interesting, precisely because of job security. Companies are not going to change their culture overnight, and they currently view employees as disposable. There's not many jobs in mainframe developer compared to say web dev, and the skills in mainframe developer to seem like they transfer poorly. I have a better chance at keeping the actu…
You also say that you would like the field you select to be growing. Selecting a growing field can be more risky, too. Things that are already widely adopted are probably proven to work really well, and therefore they are there to stay for a while.
As for the older people in the industry, I have always enjoyed it. Compared to young people, older people are generally more calm and less needy to prove themselves than young people. They actually understand (and demand from the company) the work-life balance better. And they have more interesting stories to tell. The truth is lot of smart people worked on the mainframe in the past, and often the most successful stayed in the business.
The fear that innovation gets ignored - well, that is partly unfounded. It's true that mainframe is supposed to be super stable platform (it's a philosophical difference), so you only change things in production when needed. But in tooling, you can innovate a lot.
I work for one of the mainframe companies mentioned in the article, but I am not American. In our office, there is plenty of young people and some of them do really good innovation, like for example writing some Python or JS tools. Usually, the older people are impressed by that, as long as it brings some practical value.
Re: Millennials and Mainframes: How to Bridge the Gap
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
AWS, Google Cloud, and Azure break more often than our mainframes. In this case, the cloud model is a con, essentially the self checkout lane at Walmart. You're paying more for the same ability you had before. "Well, you want redundancy right? Well you're supposed to be redundant across AZs, and then regions, and then you're going to have to have disparate vendors to mitigate sole vendor risks." And then we're right…
Clouds reinvent mainframes. They're still cheaper, run more FOSS, and have more talent available. They're a better form of lockin than mainframes.
So having interconnected commodity servers will always be marginally more expensive to run than mainframe boxes of the size of fridge, which have dedicated hardware for interconnect of internal components (for example on-book CPU caches and shared RAM).
Re: Millennials and Mainframes: How to Bridge the Gap
#149Fine. I want to learn how to maintain/write software for a mainframe. How do I start? Can I get access to one? Can I build up something I can learn on? What is the best path for doing this? How would I usefully gain enough experience to get into this? I have linux, python, c, but unsurprisingly can’t afford 30 million (or whatever) on a mainframe. I know about Hercules, but I’d only be able to run Linux. Is that righ…
Re: Millennials and Mainframes: How to Bridge the Gap
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
Regulations seem to be one reason. The IBM mainframes use their own implementation of floating point math that appears to be legally required for some businesses as you can see under "Special Uses" here[1] [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_hexadecimal_floating_poi...
Was there a reason this was downvoted? I thought this was a factual statement, but I'm not very well versed in the mainframe world so I'd appreciate it if someone could point out what I said that was incorrect
- IBM legacy hexadecimal floating point you mentioned
- IEEE 754 binary floating point
- IEEE 754 decimal floating point (they were a first implementation of it)
So perhaps you were downvoted because on the mainframe, you don't have to use the legacy format at all.