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Millennials and Mainframes: How to Bridge the Gap

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Re: Millennials and Mainframes: How to Bridge the Gap

#51

Post by woodrowbarlow »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #8
tabtab wrote: post #4

Fear of not keeping up with the Technical Joneses is a huge influence in our industry because everyone sees "old" programmers booted first when a company or the economy sours. Nobody wants to be That Guy (or Gal). If mainframes are perceived as a shrinking or outmoded technology, obsolescence fear kicks in and people avoid it. It may need some clever marketing to trick people into giving up that fear or impression. B…

Dunno, I'm a millennial (didn't even know I was part of that group till recently, gotta love being profiled by things I cannot control) and all it took me to like Mainframes (although I don't work with them) was hearing an older developer tell me all about them and their capabilities. I'm a total computer nerd aside from a programmer so I love learning about tech old, new and upcoming.

that's funny, i'm a so-called millennial and all it took me to like embedded programming was hearing an older developer tell me all about its limitations.

Re: Millennials and Mainframes: How to Bridge the Gap

#52

Post by jazzyjackson »

natvert wrote: post #28

Ok, maybe this is a silly question, but I am a millennial.... Question: what is a mainframe and why would I want one? In my mind I think of it as a big, but inelastic, compute resource. If that's true, why wouldn't I want to use something horizontally scalable instead?

You want a mainframe if you want your system designed by engineers and not web developers.

The IBM mainframe system is called "Z" for zero downtime.

Banks and Airlines use systems that haven't needed to be rebooted in decades.

(This is a little oversold, but that's the selling point.)

Re: Millennials and Mainframes: How to Bridge the Gap

#53

Post by dfox »

monocasa wrote: post #30
kibwen wrote: post #27

My first professional job was to write RPG for an AS/400 mainframe (or whatever it's called these days), and even I don't know what the word "mainframe" is supposed to suggest to the modern user. As far as I could tell, it was just a single bog-standard server rack (amusingly sitting alone in a room that was far, far too big for it; a reminder of the massive bank of computers that used to do the same job) whose only…

AS/400 is more a minicomputer. The line was developed specifically to take on the DECs and Data Generals that were starting to appear in businesses.

Also it was designed for maintenance and even programming by "non-tech" staff, which is cause for most of the ways in which AS/400 is "weird and alien" for Unix/NT people.

Re: Millennials and Mainframes: How to Bridge the Gap

#54

Post by johnklos »

natvert wrote: post #28

Ok, maybe this is a silly question, but I am a millennial.... Question: what is a mainframe and why would I want one? In my mind I think of it as a big, but inelastic, compute resource. If that's true, why wouldn't I want to use something horizontally scalable instead?

Try this:

Ok, maybe this is a silly question, but I am {...}.... Question: what is a house and why would I want one? In my mind I think of it as a big, but inelastic, tent. If that's true, why wouldn't I want to just get multiple tents instead?

A mainframe is the kind of computer you can buy and set up, turn on, and run for two decades (or more, if you like) non-stop. It doesn't need reboots, it most often doesn't even need to be powered down for hardware replacement or upgrades. It's the epitome of reliability.

Most people don't care about reliability. Heck - most people use Windows, so they can't even possibly imagine what reliability and consistency might be like. Therefore, most people can't even imagine wanting reliability because what they have seems "good enough".

People who run services which should never go down, on the other hand, love mainframes.

Re: Millennials and Mainframes: How to Bridge the Gap

#55

Post by TomK32 »

e5india wrote: post #25
marktangotango wrote: post #12

Mainframe skills shortage is a complete fabrication, it simply doesn’t exist. In June of this year a local company laid off 850 people, a company with a large mainframe installation (SS&C formerly DST Systems). Hundreds were mainframe programmers. This is after a decade offshoring. There are thousands of former mainframers here. And this is just in Kansas City, Mo. Anecdotal but representative I believe. Mainframes a…

Your comment made me curious and I ended up finding a great article on the story behind the layoffs at SS&C. https://www.thepitchkc.com/news/feature-story/article/210195...

That was worth reading. capitalism's fixation on quarterly reports is ruining successful companies like DST.

Re: Millennials and Mainframes: How to Bridge the Gap

#56

Post by bluGill »

KZeillmann wrote: post #31
aleksei wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be brutally direct, why do you think mainframes should not survive "in the coming decades"?

Asking out of complete ignorance: What can a mainframe do that other kinds of machines can't? I barely understand what a mainframe is or why you'd use one over other technologies.

What a mainframe can do is have ANY single part fail, keep running at full speed and inform you of the part that failed so you can get it replaced. It is not unusual for any part to go all the way back to the substations!

Is this more or less useful than bunch of cheap PCs in a rack. Depends on what you want to do. The bunch of PCs model generally just accepts that there will be a few blips when (not if) something goes wrong and ensure nobody will notice. The mainframe model is even the smallest blip would be noticed so you can't have any.

Re: Millennials and Mainframes: How to Bridge the Gap

#57

Post by MrBuddyCasino »

ASalazarMX wrote: post #5
justin66 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Make sure the jobs that are available are serious roles at real companies and not contract gigs sourced via body-farming consultancies.

This. A long-term job is indispensable for this kind of programming. Since the tooling is very stable and backwards compatible, you can get really good at it. Now if you get laid off after 5 years of doing just that, you better find another mainframe job because your resume won't look as diverse. OTOH, body-farming consultancies are excellent for networking and finding a full time job.

For finding a job at a crappy company, because those are the ones that hire bodyshops.

Re: Millennials and Mainframes: How to Bridge the Gap

#58

Post by IE6 »

johnklos wrote: post #54
natvert wrote: post #28

Ok, maybe this is a silly question, but I am a millennial.... Question: what is a mainframe and why would I want one? In my mind I think of it as a big, but inelastic, compute resource. If that's true, why wouldn't I want to use something horizontally scalable instead?

Try this: Ok, maybe this is a silly question, but I am {...}.... Question: what is a house and why would I want one? In my mind I think of it as a big, but inelastic, tent. If that's true, why wouldn't I want to just get multiple tents instead? A mainframe is the kind of computer you can buy and set up, turn on, and run for two decades (or more, if you like) non-stop. It doesn't need reboots, it most often doesn't ev…

As a non mainframe programmer I found your anecdote about windows reliability contrary to the experience I have had over the past few decades so I am not sure how accurate the rest of your post is.

Re: Millennials and Mainframes: How to Bridge the Gap

#59

Post by tabtab »

TomK32 wrote: post #55
e5india wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment made me curious and I ended up finding a great article on the story behind the layoffs at SS&C. https://www.thepitchkc.com/news/feature-story/article/210195...

That was worth reading. capitalism's fixation on quarterly reports is ruining successful companies like DST.

Tech service companies have to rely on reputation for renewals and referrals. Focusing on quarterly profits makes managers take short-cuts that burn bridges. It might work in a commodity business where the outputs are standardized or easy to grade, but short-cutting reputations is shooting your own foot.

Re: Millennials and Mainframes: How to Bridge the Gap

#60

Post by the-dude »

IE6 wrote: post #58
johnklos wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try this: Ok, maybe this is a silly question, but I am {...}.... Question: what is a house and why would I want one? In my mind I think of it as a big, but inelastic, tent. If that's true, why wouldn't I want to just get multiple tents instead? A mainframe is the kind of computer you can buy and set up, turn on, and run for two decades (or more, if you like) non-stop. It doesn't need reboots, it most often doesn't ev…

As a non mainframe programmer I found your anecdote about windows reliability contrary to the experience I have had over the past few decades so I am not sure how accurate the rest of your post is.

Your username checks out though.
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