Live data from Hacker News

China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

bloomberg.com

221–230 of 309 posts

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#221

The quality debate about scientific merit aside, if the U.S. wants to remain "the best", then we need to incentivize the best scientists and researchers in other countries to come here and become U.S. citizens. A lot of famous physicists, mathematicians, and logicians have done this over the past 100 years. Unfortunately, the attractiveness of becoming a U.S. citizen is waning because (1) current U.S. policies on sci…

> we need to incentivize the best scientists and researchers in other countries to come here and become U.S. citizens

This may be outside of US control. There are always exceptions, but based on experience of my friends who came to the US from other countries and stayed, scientists generally did not go to the US; they go from something: economic shock, persecution, hungry kids, crime, no science funding (not low, zero), etc. and will to go whatever decent, stable country that would take them. Big inflows of energetic, educated folks happen after wars (e.g., WW2). Collapse of communism made lots of folks from Poland to Uzbekistan search for another home.

Those greatly benefited US but were one-time events that cannot be easily extended. To lead in science a country needs to grow its scientists organically and encourage them to stay in science. My 2c.

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#222
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if you count the recent wave of a million illegal immigrants, otherwise German remains difficult and not so popular to learn. If you disagree, please provide a source. From my own experience (I speak/write in 5 different languages and live in Germany since 2011), it takes between 5 to 10 years to learn German minimally. Other Western European languages are simpler to learn and more popular: Spanish, English, Por…

Linguists don't really believe in objectively easy or difficult languages. Subjective difficulty depends on your interests and what languages you already know. As a Norwegian, I found German far easier to learn than English, French and Spanish.

Linguists don't really believe in objectively easy or difficult spoken languages. Written language is a different thing, and the difficulty of learning Chinese characters will be a drag on international acceptance in the scientific community.

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#223
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are people becoming more risk averse, or do we have more people in precarious positions where they face more serious down sides if their gamble doesn't pay off?

The US social safety net is drastically better today than it was in the recent past (eg 1980 or 1990). It's now comparable to the OECD median. I know this is an unpopular statement, because for decades it has been a common attack point to go after the US on this front. However the US is spending a lot more per capita on its welfare policies, inflation adjusted, than it was a few decades ago. Particularly since the mi…

Great job actually looking at the numbers rather than just repeating “common knowledge”.

It seems like a lot of debates on HN could benefit from having actual facts like this.

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#224
post #208

Off topic: Has anyone noticed purge of Muslim students from Chinese labs? I follow some Chinese professors, and they onboarded 2 Pakistani students and within two months, both were removed from the website. Same story with 4 more students in a different university and different laboratories. Incidentally, Xinjiang concentration camps started being mentioned in the news soon after. Also, noticed an uptick of Indian st…

This is disturbing given the paeans to the working relationship between the two countries, if not just down to poor Pakistani education quality

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#225

Because nothing beats "volume of papers produced" for measuring scientific contributions. Time to call this what it is: utter shit journalism.

Yeah. Well...it's the same measure universities use with their academics isn't it?

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US certainly has a cultural problem, out of all major countries out there, US has a weird position where a significant population denies evolution/climate change, and turned those topics into highly political charged issues. Also the US education system prior to college takes an another interesting aim to cultivate students' confidence, not by equipping them with logical training, but circumventing hard subjects like…

> what China demonstrated here is, that it is totally possible for a poor country to bootstrap itself All the American and European companies who moved production there bootstrapped China. The money had to come from somewhere. China saw the immense opportunity in western greed and ran with it.

USSR (for all its faults) achieved the same thing in a more hostile environment than the PRC.

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#228

The quality debate about scientific merit aside, if the U.S. wants to remain "the best", then we need to incentivize the best scientists and researchers in other countries to come here and become U.S. citizens. A lot of famous physicists, mathematicians, and logicians have done this over the past 100 years. Unfortunately, the attractiveness of becoming a U.S. citizen is waning because (1) current U.S. policies on sci…

I wouldn't discount the fact that a lot of great STEM students elect to work in finance as opposed to science or R&D roles: https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/the-rent-seekin...

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#229
post #16

A better index that measures QUALITY scientific research is the Nature index. By that measure, China is #2 in the world, tho far behind the US still. https://www.natureindex.com/country-outputs/generate/All/glo...

I'm surprised at how high up Canada / Switzerland is in the rankings. Both pretty small for that much impact.

?? Canada's population is roughly 1/10 of that of the US and the article count shown for Canada is also roughly 1/10 of that of the US. Exactly how is it surprising?

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#230
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point that most grad programs don't have US students is revealing - for those who have alternative entry into the US economy, most people decide that a PhD program is a poor choice. Most of the things people work on in their PhD programs are very niche, and most do not work in academia or on the same thing after they finish their PhD. And most people never really make a noticeable contribution to science…

I don't think Mandarin Chinese is that well suited for scientific publishing. I'm not at a high level of reading proficiency in Chinese, but the language seems to be rather bad at incorporating foreign words. On the other hand, cooperation among Chinese scholars is only going to increase, so papers will increasingly be published in Chinese. Another factor is that China doesn't really have a reputation for honesty and…

> I don't think Mandarin Chinese is that well suited for scientific publishing.

Ignoring path dependency the same could be said of English. And while that path dependency provides hysteresis, it doesn't imply inevitability; Arabic and Latin had good runs as dominant scientific language but were eventually overtaken by English, which will ultimately be overtaken in turn.

Post reply on HN