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Brave files adtech complaint against Google

reuters.com

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Re: Brave files adtech complaint against Google

#251

Post by pacala »

Nasrudith wrote: post #69
pacala wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it is technically correct that ad networks don't sell personal data, it is also irrelevant. It's not the bits that matter, it's what one does informed by the bits. Ad networks sell _actionable insights_ informed by personal data. An ad network answers the question 'what is the best way to spend $$$ and win this election' _using_ personal data of millions of people, but not _revealing_ the personal data to the p…

While there is some evil involved with targetted advertising there is a significant difference between that and direct data selling. The latter would be way worse. One tries to sell you weird stuff after you look up the infamous giant barrel of lube after hearing about all of the joke reviews. The other gives the lines of an honest man to hang you with to anyone willing to pay and spin you as a colossal pervert. It i…

Fair enough. N:M surveillance is worse than N:1 surveillance from a personal perspective. Though unclear if that also holds at scale. They are still both evil and much worse than no surveillance.

Re: Brave files adtech complaint against Google

#252

Post by Filligree »

doublec wrote: post #87
Filligree wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real future is fully-decentralized websites, and it doesn't require new browsers. Let's say I want to run a forum. Something equivalent to, hmm, https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/ How do I do that as a decentralized website?

Both ZeroNet and Freenet have decentralized forums. Freenet's forum is called FMS. They have decentralized microblogging too - ZeroMe on ZeroNet and Sone on Freenet. This is a post I wrote about ZeroNet's decentralized microblogging: https://bluishcoder.co.nz/2017/10/12/zerome-decentralized-mi...

Moderation is a must, unfortunately. Matters of trust make it difficult to run code on the users' computers, even if NAT and so forth didn't get in the way.

I like the vision of decentralized computing, but I'm afraid it'll be at minimum very inefficient, and possibly infeasible.

Re: Brave files adtech complaint against Google

#253

Post by Kurtz79 »

BurningCycles wrote: post #200
nostrademons wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd bet it's a PR stunt. They're getting all kinds of publicity from this. ...that said, I installed Brave this weekend and am posting this comment from it, and I gotta say that it's really nice viewing a web without ads. I'd forgotten how pleasant browsing the web can be when you're not downloading the 100 or so ads & trackers on a typical news article and playing cat-and-mouse with their anti-AdBlock code. So from…

Or you can just install uBlock Origin. I don't see what Brave brings to the table.

Brave is mostly used as a mobile browser.

It is far more practical to download an already adblock-included brower than having to mess with extensions on mobile.

I installed it soon after switching to Android from iOS and I have no complaints, it is fast and it just works.

Re: Brave files adtech complaint against Google

#254

Post by purple-dragon »

Nursie wrote: post #247
purple-dragon wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like an overly rigid and adversarial perspective. I don't think online advertising is always done well or ethically, but in general, I support the notion that having access to good content requires a way to compensate content creators.

> That seems like an overly rigid and adversarial perspective It's the truth. You don't get to control how I render the page, on what device, whether I've decided to use links (or lynx) today, or any of that. It's my computing device, I'll render data as I please. > I support the notion that having access to good content requires a way to compensate content creators. Sure, but again if you send me the data, I'll rend…

That's a design consequence, not a design consideration. Local TV stations can't control the way you consume their signals either, but it's not as easy to for you to filter out the content and disregard the pulp, i.e., inline advertisements.

Re: Brave files adtech complaint against Google

#255

Post by snaky »

Kurtz79 wrote: post #253
BurningCycles wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you can just install uBlock Origin. I don't see what Brave brings to the table.

Brave is mostly used as a mobile browser. It is far more practical to download an already adblock-included brower than having to mess with extensions on mobile. I installed it soon after switching to Android from iOS and I have no complaints, it is fast and it just works.

> It is far more practical to download an already adblock-included brower than having to mess with extensions on mobile

You don't need to "opt in to receiving ads sold by Brave Software in place of the blocked ads" for that.

https://www.bromite.org/fdroid

Re: Brave files adtech complaint against Google

#256

Post by strmpnk »

jonahx wrote: post #222
nightsd01 wrote: post #170

From what I understand, Google isn’t actually giving away people’s data to “hundreds of companies” for advertising purposes. When an advertiser wants to target a specific group of people, Google doesn’t say “here’s everyone’s private data, good luck”. GOOGLE does the filtering and targeting internally. I’m sorry but that isn’t evil or bad. Unless we want to start paying for google searches and Facebook, this is how i…

> My personal suspicion is that people are just jealous of how much success Google and Facebook have had. Ah, yes, a classic: "All criticism of success and power stems from envy." Impervious to pushback (since that would only prove you'd pushed the hot button of painful truth) and always plausible-sounding, this is truly a brilliant weapon for snuffing out legitimate complaints and healthy conversation. > Unless we w…

I paid for YouTube red until I got tired of googles own ads promoting their own content which I had zero percent interest in. I’d dismiss and disable it and it’d just come back the next day. So much for ad-free.

Now I use youtube-dl and avoid supporting google in every way I can. They seem to break every principle and promise made to a calculated degree so someone can always point at someone else doing it worse. The real result is they are eroding the status quo. Privacy, content rights, fair search, unburdened UX, have all taken big hits over the last decade and it’s all by choice. Google didn’t accidentally end up here.

I find Microsoft’s behavior annoying and desperate but it’s also not so different from Google. We just consider the contexts different since Google “owns” its website it can do what it wants even if it’s on in a browser on my machine vs the windows shell.

Re: Brave files adtech complaint against Google

#257

Post by dec0dedab0de »

nightsd01 wrote: post #170

From what I understand, Google isn’t actually giving away people’s data to “hundreds of companies” for advertising purposes. When an advertiser wants to target a specific group of people, Google doesn’t say “here’s everyone’s private data, good luck”. GOOGLE does the filtering and targeting internally. I’m sorry but that isn’t evil or bad. Unless we want to start paying for google searches and Facebook, this is how i…

Unless we want to start paying for google searches and Facebook, this is how it’s going to be. And personally, I actually like getting ads relevant to my life.

I do not like targeted advertising one bit. It makes the ads boring, repetitive, and potentially embarrassing. I want to see ads relative to whatever content I am consuming. If that content is so general that it can't be targeted, then so be it. All other advertising works this way, and it has been doing just fine. Not to mention 3rd party scripts running, which only happens because the advertisers and content producers do not trust each other, so they sacrifice the security of their users.

Re: Brave files adtech complaint against Google

#258

Post by t0astbread »

nightsd01 wrote: post #170

From what I understand, Google isn’t actually giving away people’s data to “hundreds of companies” for advertising purposes. When an advertiser wants to target a specific group of people, Google doesn’t say “here’s everyone’s private data, good luck”. GOOGLE does the filtering and targeting internally. I’m sorry but that isn’t evil or bad. Unless we want to start paying for google searches and Facebook, this is how i…

Consider that all data a company owns about you could be used against you. Now I'm not a criminal but I don't know what data Google (and other companies) collect about me and how that data could be interpreted to put me in a bad position. So I'd rather just avoid tracking as much as possible.

Re: Brave files adtech complaint against Google

#259

Post by s73v3r_ »

jordigh wrote: post #114
CobrastanJorji wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say bees. "I see the problem is bees in your car. We would like to solve this by filling your car with different, quieter bees. In exchange for this, we are willing to give you some of the honey."

More like, "in exchange, we'll make more honey that you can buy from us too." I gain nothing by watching ads. All I get is the creation of a need or desire that I didn't have before I watched the ad. Ads increase demand. Telling me that your business will fail unless I voluntarily inconvenience myself is not endearing me to your business.

"I gain nothing by watching ads."

You get the site getting revenue, which allows it to continue existing and creating the content you enjoy.

Re: Brave files adtech complaint against Google

#260

Post by etse »

snaky wrote: post #255
Kurtz79 wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brave is mostly used as a mobile browser. It is far more practical to download an already adblock-included brower than having to mess with extensions on mobile. I installed it soon after switching to Android from iOS and I have no complaints, it is fast and it just works.

> It is far more practical to download an already adblock-included brower than having to mess with extensions on mobile You don't need to "opt in to receiving ads sold by Brave Software in place of the blocked ads" for that. https://www.bromite.org/fdroid

It's less seamless and user-friendly to have to install F-droid and deal with whatever OS permissions are needed before installing Bromite.

The earlier concern about data sharing and privacy by advertising companies is not an identical problem to users being served ads.

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