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China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

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Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#111

Post by chairmanwow »

throwaway713 wrote: post #36

The quality debate about scientific merit aside, if the U.S. wants to remain "the best", then we need to incentivize the best scientists and researchers in other countries to come here and become U.S. citizens. A lot of famous physicists, mathematicians, and logicians have done this over the past 100 years. Unfortunately, the attractiveness of becoming a U.S. citizen is waning because (1) current U.S. policies on sci…

For those interested, here is a link to a Wolfram Alpha query that shows US vs China GPD PPP [1]

Also, here is a Wikipedia link to what GDP PPP (Gross Domestic Product Purchasing Power Parity) actually is [2]

[1] http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=US,+China+GDP+PPP [2] https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_Power_Parity

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#112

Post by [deleted] »

projektir wrote: post #109
throwaway713 wrote: post #36

The quality debate about scientific merit aside, if the U.S. wants to remain "the best", then we need to incentivize the best scientists and researchers in other countries to come here and become U.S. citizens. A lot of famous physicists, mathematicians, and logicians have done this over the past 100 years. Unfortunately, the attractiveness of becoming a U.S. citizen is waning because (1) current U.S. policies on sci…

Or maybe the US should actually look at its own citizens for once. It seems every time the US has a problem, they try to solve it by importing people.

[deleted]

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#114

Post by msaharia »

Eridrus wrote: post #80
throwaway713 wrote: post #36

The quality debate about scientific merit aside, if the U.S. wants to remain "the best", then we need to incentivize the best scientists and researchers in other countries to come here and become U.S. citizens. A lot of famous physicists, mathematicians, and logicians have done this over the past 100 years. Unfortunately, the attractiveness of becoming a U.S. citizen is waning because (1) current U.S. policies on sci…

I think the point that most grad programs don't have US students is revealing - for those who have alternative entry into the US economy, most people decide that a PhD program is a poor choice. Most of the things people work on in their PhD programs are very niche, and most do not work in academia or on the same thing after they finish their PhD. And most people never really make a noticeable contribution to science…

That simply won't happen.

1. US isn't the only country which publishes in English. The entire Western hemisphere does. Not to mention India, already the most populous English-speaking country in the world, and has barely scratched the surface when it comes to English literacy.

2. Science needs interaction to thrive. Publishing textbooks in Mandarin is a very different ballgame than cutting edge research papers. I don't see that changing and China has invested massively in English education already.

Tldr: English will remain the defacto global Lingua Franca of science.

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#115

Post by a-dub »

One brilliant way to stimulate and support cutting edge research in the United States would be to impose tariffs on high end equipment and research supplies that are made elsewhere in the world. By making it comparatively more expensive to buy equipment and supplies than other places in the world, the world's top research talent will be clawing at the door (assuming they can get visas) to take up residence in our universities!

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#116

Post by Xeronate »

bitxbit wrote: post #87
lovich wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My home towns school stopped giving homework when I was in high school because the budget ran out for paper halfway through the year. There may be unparalleled access to science research in the US, but it is unevenly distributed

As a parent, I agree with you 100% and this is a big problem in the US because quality of teaching has gone down drastically over the past twenty years. I think teaching in public schools should be a mandatory public service (or highly incentivized ie loan forgiveness) for college graduates.

Having a bachelors doesn't make someone a good teacher. There is a reason teachers get teaching degrees.

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#117

Post by seanmcdirmid »

noobermin wrote: post #14
whatshisface wrote: post #2

> They document a rapid expansion between 2000 and 2016, as the Chinese share of global publications in physical sciences, engineering and math quadrupled. I really hate to risk being the guy who says "they will never best us," until they do, but in my field and many others Chinese papers are known to be of a lower quality standard and a lot more mill-like. This may come as a surprise to many, but the simple fact is…

The article points not just to number of publications but citations too, which hint that they aren't just paper mill papers. In my field, China is actually committing to investing in my kind of research in terms of facilities and such while the US is cutting of course.

Citations are so easy to game though: you just need to create citation rings and that number can rise quickly along with a bunch of mediocre publications.

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#118

Post by DoctorOetker »

a-dub wrote: post #115

One brilliant way to stimulate and support cutting edge research in the United States would be to impose tariffs on high end equipment and research supplies that are made elsewhere in the world. By making it comparatively more expensive to buy equipment and supplies than other places in the world, the world's top research talent will be clawing at the door (assuming they can get visas) to take up residence in our uni…

Can you explain that process in more detail please?

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#119

Post by spyckie2 »

spyckie2 wrote: post #96
throwaway713 wrote: post #36

The quality debate about scientific merit aside, if the U.S. wants to remain "the best", then we need to incentivize the best scientists and researchers in other countries to come here and become U.S. citizens. A lot of famous physicists, mathematicians, and logicians have done this over the past 100 years. Unfortunately, the attractiveness of becoming a U.S. citizen is waning because (1) current U.S. policies on sci…

I find it helpful to remove cultural origins and model it purely based on opportunity, and it makes a lot of sense. In this instance, take away Chinese / American from the article and reanalyze it with the kind of education they received. The fact is that scientific research has extremely poor returns on investment, with high specialization requirements and little opportunity for wealth, fame, or impact. Ground-break…

revisiting the thought, it may not have to deal with skillset as much as opportunity availability. There are more opportunities for American citizens that are equivalent to a PhD, whereas that may not be the case for non-Americans.

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#120

Post by adrianN »

xvilka wrote: post #97
Eridrus wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point that most grad programs don't have US students is revealing - for those who have alternative entry into the US economy, most people decide that a PhD program is a poor choice. Most of the things people work on in their PhD programs are very niche, and most do not work in academia or on the same thing after they finish their PhD. And most people never really make a noticeable contribution to science…

Then everyone will just learn Chinese，like everyone learnt English before.

One does not "just" learn Chinese. Becoming proficient enough to read scientific papers takes many years, for any language, but for Chinese in particular.
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