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China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

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Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#101
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People over-obsess about how China is beating us in science and technology, and not enough about how China is becoming so entrepreneurial while US citizens are becoming extremely risk averse.

Are people becoming more risk averse, or do we have more people in precarious positions where they face more serious down sides if their gamble doesn't pay off?

It's the same difference, as far as innovation is concerned.

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#103
post #97
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point that most grad programs don't have US students is revealing - for those who have alternative entry into the US economy, most people decide that a PhD program is a poor choice. Most of the things people work on in their PhD programs are very niche, and most do not work in academia or on the same thing after they finish their PhD. And most people never really make a noticeable contribution to science…

Then everyone will just learn Chinese,like everyone learnt English before.

The process of English becoming the global language has taken over 150 years. Massive cultural and economic forces have been at play to make English global.

It's not a simple thing, and what will likely happen is language balkanization for a significant period of time before any seismic shift from English to Chinese which is unlikely to happen for a number of reasons regardless.

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally the only times when I got back-stabbed at work were by Canadians, but I don't go around making conclusion about Canadian culture being backstabby. If 1 in 10 Chinese you met are manipulators, that means 9 out of 10 are NOT honest/manipulative, how can you then go conclude "in Chinese culture 'any means necessary' tactics are considered smart and fair game as long as they work."?

I move out of china for college in japan and I feel I can view things without getting too emotional. In practice when you are dealing with people from mainland they are ruthless about business and do not share/acknowledge the rules people follow in westerner and other Asian countries(most of they are not aware of it of course). We hear ton of story about Chinese company stealing IP. China have this absence of culture…

Same as you, I moved to Canada for college, and for a while detached myself from "those lowly Chinese" still stuck in China. But eventually it occurred to me, people also judge me with those stereotypes. Looking at myself and other Chinese people I crossed path with, I feel most of us live with integrity and a high morale compass, and having those stereotypes applied to us are incredibly unfair and dangerous.

Holocaust did not stop after all the bad Jews were persecuted.

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> current U.S. policies on science are extremely unfavorable to foreign researchers To U.S. researchers also - the proposal funding rate is so low on account of the resource/PI ratio that many U.S. researchers are moving to Europe where there is greater promise of hard funding.

Yes, for instance, the NSF's budget has been static in nominal terms since the Bush years (or at least that's what the program manager told me the last time.i was on a panel). Getting a grant, especially for young researchers looking to establish a track record, is very difficult in this environment.

Now, I must revise and extend my remarks. I found this site: https://www.aaas.org/page/historical-trends-federal-rd

From which you can download R&D spending as a percent of GDP in an excel spreadsheet. They also have nice breakdowns for research, development, and facilities.

If you look at total Federal R&D (all of the 3 above), it has indeed declined as a percent of GDP (although not in real terms).

1976: 1.23% 1986: 1.2% 1996: 0.89% 2006: 0.99% 2016: 0.81%

Then there is a plunge:

2017: 0.67% 2018: 0.71%

but the plunge comes with an asterisk: "Beginning in FY 2017, a new official definition of R&D has been adopted by federal agencies. Late-stage development, testing, and evaluation programs, primarily within the Defense Department, are no longer counted as R&D. "

So, it's fair to say Federal R&D spending is at least stagnant and probably in a slow decline as a percent of GDP.

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#106
post #95
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point that most grad programs don't have US students is revealing - for those who have alternative entry into the US economy, most people decide that a PhD program is a poor choice. Most of the things people work on in their PhD programs are very niche, and most do not work in academia or on the same thing after they finish their PhD. And most people never really make a noticeable contribution to science…

>if Chinese folks start publishing in Mandarin They may, and then it will be like during the cold war where Soviets published in Russian and we'd be lucky if someone translated that into English. If it were to happen today, someone would make a business out of translating the publications --maybe even crowdsource the translations.

Would bd so easy to translate in this day and age

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#107

The quality debate about scientific merit aside, if the U.S. wants to remain "the best", then we need to incentivize the best scientists and researchers in other countries to come here and become U.S. citizens. A lot of famous physicists, mathematicians, and logicians have done this over the past 100 years. Unfortunately, the attractiveness of becoming a U.S. citizen is waning because (1) current U.S. policies on sci…

A moot point for humankind: we really do not care.

It seems it is working out quite well by the Chinese remaining in China. Well done!

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#108
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. In my field there are entire journals which I regard as rubbish and which are 95%+ Chinese/East Asian. Part of the problem is integrity, but a larger portion of the bad papers are just meaningless cargo-cult science.

i mean that's true across the board. A large portion of bad startups are just meaningless cargo culting, etc.

Not really. There are other journals that I do read.

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#109

The quality debate about scientific merit aside, if the U.S. wants to remain "the best", then we need to incentivize the best scientists and researchers in other countries to come here and become U.S. citizens. A lot of famous physicists, mathematicians, and logicians have done this over the past 100 years. Unfortunately, the attractiveness of becoming a U.S. citizen is waning because (1) current U.S. policies on sci…

Or maybe the US should actually look at its own citizens for once. It seems every time the US has a problem, they try to solve it by importing people.

Re: China now the most prolific contributor to physical sciences, engineering, math

#110
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you realize how racist this statement is. I'm also surprised you've never met manipulative people who are not Chinese, like, are you living in rural China?

This is a known Chinese problem, not racist it is ingrained in their culture. Chinese will literally riot if they are not allowed to cheat..

Anti-cheating was incredibly strong in my experience, my mother taught middle school in China, and there has not been any widespread cheating scandals that she was aware of in her circles.

Rich and powerful generally "cheat" by buying seats at prestigious schools with money or other forms of contribution, or by sending their kids to foreign colleges where the competition is easier.

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