Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How America lost its love for the stick shift

cnbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

581–590 of 729 posts

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#581

Post by hocuspocus »

LeonM wrote: post #568

In Europe, the manual/automatic situation is quite the opposite of that in the USA. Here all standard, cheap cars are manual, and only the expensive luxury cars have automatic transmissions. (At least in the Netherlands) driving lessons/tests must done in manual cars, unless you have some medical reason not to (then you'll also get a note on your license, prohibiting you from driving manual cars). Automatic transmiss…

I believe the main issue in Europe was due to torque converters being inefficient. With expensive gas and small engines, the performance hit is non-negligible. Nowadays you can get good robotized gearboxes that have almost none of the disadvantages, except for a slightly higher price. And given that most people drive manuals in an idiotic way, they can easily be more fuel efficient.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#582

Post by zaarn »

chrisdhoover wrote: post #345
t0mbstone wrote: post #163

Speaking as someone who has owned a number of sports cars with manual transmissions, I can tell you why I finally made the switch to automatic: Adaptive cruise control in stop and go traffic. I used to have to deal with a six-speed manual transmission in stop and go traffic for an hour every day, and it was pure torture. I mean, sure, it was fun for a weekend drive in the mountains, but it sucked the rest of the time…

I just do like the truckers do, leave it in second and crawl. It helps to not be concerned with maintaining a 6 inch gap with the car ahead. I truly believe that stop and go is caused by automatics. All of the brake tapping tends to bunch people up at the end of long lines forcing them to a complete stop. In a manual just let off on the gas a little and the engine brakes a little, no brake lights to create cascading…

Stop and Go is caused by trying to maintain a constant distance to the front car but isn't caused by automatics, people with stick behave the same.

The simple solution is to behave like an inductor in electronics; if the front car starts, take a bit of time to get going and don't try to maintain the gap. That way you average out the speed of the stop-and-go traffic more than if you were maintaining distance.

It might help to think of stop-and-go as a wave of stop-traffic through go-traffic where the reaction time of drivers shortens or lengthens the stop-traffic duty cycle. If a driver maintains enough distance to eat an entire stop-cycle without stopping themselves, they have effectively nullified the stop-wave. If they can't do the entire cycle they can still help in reducing the duty cycle of the stop wave.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#583

Post by J-dawg »

hocuspocus wrote: post #581
LeonM wrote: post #568

In Europe, the manual/automatic situation is quite the opposite of that in the USA. Here all standard, cheap cars are manual, and only the expensive luxury cars have automatic transmissions. (At least in the Netherlands) driving lessons/tests must done in manual cars, unless you have some medical reason not to (then you'll also get a note on your license, prohibiting you from driving manual cars). Automatic transmiss…

I believe the main issue in Europe was due to torque converters being inefficient. With expensive gas and small engines, the performance hit is non-negligible. Nowadays you can get good robotized gearboxes that have almost none of the disadvantages, except for a slightly higher price. And given that most people drive manuals in an idiotic way, they can easily be more fuel efficient.

Yep, this was always the main argument against them when I was growing up.

Some of the older automatics were also hilariously bad, with clunky gear changes and noticeably long delay on kick down. Perhaps American drivers were more tolerant of this because they drive such long distances, so a relaxing drive was more important than an engaging one.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#584

Post by flurdy »

tomohawk wrote: post #578
_fizz_buzz_ wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it hasn't been proven that this happens more with automatic transmissions.

But it is pretty obvious. In an automatic, you pretty much have to touch the brakes to slow down. In a manual, you have other options. Taking your foot off the gas in a manual tends to slow the car quite a bit more than in an automatic, for example.

While technically true, there is not much practical difference.

Like on a motorbike I tend to tweak slow speeds with the clutch only and leave the throttle in one position most of the time.

With an automatic car since the brakes are not binary and automatic gearboxes have often forward creeping I only tweak the brakes. Helps to force the gearbox into 2nd gear as well for even slower creeping.

In fact, I think automatic gearboxes reduces traffic jams as fewer parts to think of so less likely to accidentally make a mistake and cause congestion.

Wonder how many jams are due to accidental stalling a manual gearbox.

Traffic jams without an automatic gearbox is no fun. (or even less fun)

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#585

Post by ericd »

Fifer82 wrote: post #579
J-dawg wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK you don't need a medical reason, you can simply choose to take an automatic test. But then of course you can only drive automatic cars, just like in the Netherlands. Ironically I believe an American who has never driven a manual would be able to come here and rent one, because (please correct me if I'm wrong) their licences don't distinguish between the two. I think manuals are slowly on the way out here as…

What if I have an Automatic Driving Licence (UK) and I go to America and rent a Stick Shift then the Police pull me over? Also could I go to a developing country, get a licence there, then it is valid in the UK and America? These questions came to mind when I read your comment.

I doubt the police in the US would even mentally register that restriction, since it's a completely foreign idea to people in the US.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#586

Post by scandinavegan »

Zombieball wrote: post #532
tlrobinson wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So does “staying in your lane” and “maintaining appropriate speed”. Adding arbitrary other things requiring focus doesn’t seem like it would help prevent accidents.

I can’t speak for others but I personally find driving a manual does help prevent accidents. Driving an automatic feels a bit mundane. Just hold the gas pedal in the same spot the whole time. It’s easy to slip into a boredom state (zone out) and not focus on the road. Even more so when tired. A manual car sort of kicks you in the butt every now and then: “hey, you’re in the wrong gear. Stay sharp, and upshift!”

My wife insisted on an automatic car because she doesn't drive much and wanted to keep it simple. I was a bit hesitant, because when I first got my driver's license I really liked driving my parent's manual car. Now I've really come to enjoy driving an automatic. The two main benefits are when I drive in heavy traffic and either have to switch lanes or when I'm in a slow moving queue; in both situations there's one less thing to think about. I'm sure it makes it easier for me to focus on the surrounding traffic because there's less stuff on my mind.

Other benefits, when I think about it, are that an automatic frees up one foot and one hand. I can drive with my cup of tea or coffee without having to shift, which is great. I don't know if it directly helps with awareness, but it helps me stay awake.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#587

Post by ptaipale »

city41 wrote: post #310
t0mbstone wrote: post #163

Speaking as someone who has owned a number of sports cars with manual transmissions, I can tell you why I finally made the switch to automatic: Adaptive cruise control in stop and go traffic. I used to have to deal with a six-speed manual transmission in stop and go traffic for an hour every day, and it was pure torture. I mean, sure, it was fun for a weekend drive in the mountains, but it sucked the rest of the time…

My wife and I both have manuals and we sit in stop and go traffic every day. Having to shift in traffic doesn't even register with my brain that it's really anything at all. I simply don't notice.

After training for some time, the handling of stickshift is not processed consciously by the brain, it's more like walking, which is actually quite impossible to do consciously.

The same applies to pretty much everything in driving, of course. Initially, when learning to drive, the information flow overwhelms people, because the brain tries to understand and process everything. Eventually, routines take over and the low-level things like how to turn the steering wheel, or how to handle brakes or shifting, is done unconsciously.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#588

Post by lostlogin »

J-dawg wrote: post #580
Fifer82 wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I have an Automatic Driving Licence (UK) and I go to America and rent a Stick Shift then the Police pull me over? Also could I go to a developing country, get a licence there, then it is valid in the UK and America? These questions came to mind when I read your comment.

These are interesting questions! I don't know the answers, but I guess international law is often bad at dealing with edge cases.

Is it an international law situation?

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#589

Post by maccard »

Fifer82 wrote: post #579
J-dawg wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK you don't need a medical reason, you can simply choose to take an automatic test. But then of course you can only drive automatic cars, just like in the Netherlands. Ironically I believe an American who has never driven a manual would be able to come here and rent one, because (please correct me if I'm wrong) their licences don't distinguish between the two. I think manuals are slowly on the way out here as…

What if I have an Automatic Driving Licence (UK) and I go to America and rent a Stick Shift then the Police pull me over? Also could I go to a developing country, get a licence there, then it is valid in the UK and America? These questions came to mind when I read your comment.

> Also could I go to a developing country, get a licence there, then it is valid in the UK and America?

Depends on the country you get the license from. https://www.gov.uk/exchange-foreign-driving-licence has a simple click through questionaire that implies your 3rd world license would be valid for 12 months. Looks like you can also get an IDP [0] which will be recognised in most places in the world, but again only valid for 12 months.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Driving_Permit

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#590

Post by ptaipale »

bunderbunder wrote: post #196
pssflops wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My previous car, a 2008 Subaru WRX, in manual had cruise control; while it wasn't adaptive, it was the most important thing I will consider in any other manual transmission going forward. Stop-and-go traffic to my previous job made driving a chore and weekends weren't enough. I miss having that kind of control over the car, but the automatic Mazda3 I replaced it with has made that traffic an afterthought.

Would adaptive cruise control in stop-and-go traffic work at all with a manual? When the speed of traffic is vacillating between 0 and 30mph, there's never any one gear that you can stay in for long.

It works in highway traffic, it's not unusual in new cars where I live (Finland). Most cars are manual shift, almost all have cruise control, some of the cruise controls are adaptive.

Of course, in city traffic the adaptiveness is not very useful with manual transmission.

Post reply on HN