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Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

nytimes.com

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Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#51

Post by dgut »

tosser00001 wrote: post #24
tosser00001 wrote: post #14

Wage growth would help, but for some reason, these articles never even mention immigration. The scale of immigration both legal and illegal I believe has the greatest impact on the lowest sectors of society. The lack of discussion on the impact so many potential new workers is having on wage growth leads one to think they believe labor cost is the one thing immune to the law of supply and demand.

It’s interesting the immigration cannot even be mentioned without getting down voted. It seems obvious to me that fewer low skill workers would result in higher wages for those who could most benefit from it.

Mention it anyways, that is don't ever hesitate to post your opinion. Those who can't tolerate the topic aren't worth your argument/time but a lot of people wouldn't mind. Including me, an immigrant myself (not to the US though).

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#52

Post by acchow »

harlanji wrote: post #36
ProfessorLayton wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually educational attainment [1] [1] https://poverty.ucdavis.edu/faq/how-does-level-education-rel...

I live in San Francisco and work in Mountain View, CA, with the lowest sector of society. I showed up for work starving and with only 18 years of programming exp., about a momth ago (ie. No low skill, dish washing/bagging as a teen). None of my classmates or former colleagues would help me more than a few hundred dollars, despite 10+ years of shared history. Now I can at least feed myself, grand totaling like $40/day…

Have you written your story somewhere? Would really like to read it.

Particularly, I think going from a $200k job to starving must be quite the whirlwind journey.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#53

Post by 2bitmachine »

xupybd wrote: post #46

>American productivity has increased by 77 percent, while hourly pay has grown by only 12 percent Yes but where has this happened. I suspect it's happened through automation. Meaning that the productivity gains might not be per employee and might not easily translate into the pockets of workers.

They sure seem to have no problem materializing into the pockets of execs though...

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#54

Post by fzeroracer »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #34
sdinsn wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that legal immigration has the greatest impact on higher sectors of society- such as salaries in software / IT. This can be fixed by raising the minimum pay for H1Bs. I'd believe that illegal immigration has a incredibly small effect overall.

The illegals are all picking strawberries for below minimum wage so we don't have the bear the true costs of our food. Remove them and there would be serious repercussions for those at the lower strata of society.

As you've mentioned the real cost of food and farming in the US is effectively heavily subsidized by the fact that many of said farms employ illegal immigrants for labor, both because they refuse to pay minimum wage and because Americans as a whole seem to refuse to do said jobs.

Legal immigration has a comparatively small effect due to the fact that they're part of the skilled labor force and generally fill gaps in our society. The number of people actually holding H1Bs is so small that I find it hard to believe they have any major pull on the various sectors outside of the few firms that are known to be abusing the system.

Fixing the system in a humane way that also doesn't blow up the lower classes is a herculean task.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#55

Post by beamatronic »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #34
sdinsn wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that legal immigration has the greatest impact on higher sectors of society- such as salaries in software / IT. This can be fixed by raising the minimum pay for H1Bs. I'd believe that illegal immigration has a incredibly small effect overall.

The illegals are all picking strawberries for below minimum wage so we don't have the bear the true costs of our food. Remove them and there would be serious repercussions for those at the lower strata of society.

Has anyone ever calculated the maximum possible wage for a job? Take strawberry picking for an example. If run by a non-profit, what is the highest possible wage? Would be interesting to see this relative to the actual wage.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#56

Post by brickcitymang »

acchow wrote: post #44
brickcitymang wrote: post #2

Poverty in America is a result of American capitalism, at a very high level. At a very very high level, it is caused by human greed, and a lack of love for our neighbors. We can talk about wages and employment rates, and race all day long, but those are just details. It's human greed in the end, and our inability to love others like we love ourselves.

There was no poverty before America?

Poverty itself can be caused by many things. But poverty in the most powerful country on Earth is not for a lack of resources.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#57

Post by brickcitymang »

oh_sigh wrote: post #10
brickcitymang wrote: post #2

Poverty in America is a result of American capitalism, at a very high level. At a very very high level, it is caused by human greed, and a lack of love for our neighbors. We can talk about wages and employment rates, and race all day long, but those are just details. It's human greed in the end, and our inability to love others like we love ourselves.

What is poverty in noncapitalist countries a result of?

Human greed lol or they're poor and nobody wants to help them because they're too busy covering their own asses. Basically there's enough resources in the world for nobody to live in poverty. It doesn't work because nobody's willing to make it work, which is just human nature of selfishness.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#58

Post by brickcitymang »

brickcitymang wrote: post #57
oh_sigh wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is poverty in noncapitalist countries a result of?

Human greed lol or they're poor and nobody wants to help them because they're too busy covering their own asses. Basically there's enough resources in the world for nobody to live in poverty. It doesn't work because nobody's willing to make it work, which is just human nature of selfishness.

And I don't deny this nature in myself

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#59

Post by unholythree »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #34
sdinsn wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that legal immigration has the greatest impact on higher sectors of society- such as salaries in software / IT. This can be fixed by raising the minimum pay for H1Bs. I'd believe that illegal immigration has a incredibly small effect overall.

The illegals are all picking strawberries for below minimum wage so we don't have the bear the true costs of our food. Remove them and there would be serious repercussions for those at the lower strata of society.

An anecdotal observation. In the majority black city where I live 50% of black men are unemployed but if you look at the numerous construction sites workers are largely Hispanic.

I worked at a hotel for several years in the early 2000's the housekeeping staff was overwhelmingly black women and men but shifted dramatically to Hispanic women and men after new penny pinching ownership took over and started using some dubious temp agency.

I don't begrudge the immigrants, I'm second gen on one side and wanting a better life is completely reasonable. I do however think it's completely disgraceful that we turn a blind eye to employers that break the law because they don't want to pay a living wage, or want compliant semi-disposable workers.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#60

Post by skookumchuck »

noobermin wrote: post #18

It's not like meritocracy is completely unrelated to real life, it matters in a certain regime. However, if like Vanessa, you're born to lesser circumstances, you just cannot escape poverty by just working harder. Similarly, if you are born to very well off standards, even if you're a dope and spend money from Dad's inheritance on cocaine, sure, you won't be successful but you'll still have a net of some kind. You ca…

> the meritocratic myth

I've been around to see people over decades, and how their decisions affect their lives. Meritocracy is not a myth. Where people wind up is very much a consequence of their choices.

This isn't the Soviet Union where one is assigned a career, a job and an apartment.

I've seen immigrants arrive here with nothing and become millionaires. That's why everyone wants to come to America. The opportunity is here.

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