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How America lost its love for the stick shift

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Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#371

Post by mulmen »

TheGRS wrote: post #113
mulmen wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should just revoke drivers licenses for people who can't operate cars responsibly. It's way too easy to get a license and keep one in the US today. We don't even re-test.

I get that sentiment, but man would that be an easy thing to abuse systemically. Having a car is very essential to life for most Americans.

I’m not convinced. 80% of Americans live in cities. Certainly some of them do truly need cars but there must be some significant population that can get by without them.

For a sample size of one I don’t actually need one myself.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#373

Post by hegz »

int_handler wrote: post #315
Someone1234 wrote: post #48

There's little argument for manual transmission anymore except in larger vehicles. There used to be an efficiency gap, in that a good manual driver was more efficient than an automatic. But two things have happened since then, we have computer controlled transmissions and CVTs. Manual drivers were more efficient because they learned when the vehicle would need to shift, and shifted preemptively. A computer controlled…

It seems you fully consider cars to be an appliance. Today, manual cars aren't about efficiency. Manuals are about driver engagement and the feeling of connectedness with the car and with the road. You can think. of it as more of a luxury than a necessity, and that is still a very valid argument for manual transmissions in road cars, especially those designed to be driver's cars.

Most people dont care about driving. Its a tool to get you to a place.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#374

Post by FPGAhacker »

Johnny555 wrote: post #323
emodendroket wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People always say this, but frankly I find stop-and-go traffic isn't that bad if you put the car into neutral instead of holding down the clutch the whole time. I haven't looked back since I bought my first manual car. I never use cruise control at all though, even when I had an automatic car.

I'm not sure you understand persistent stop and go traffic -- shifting between neutral and first gets awfully tiring after 45+ minutes when you have to do it every day. Putting the car in neutral doesn't really solve that problem. Adaptive cruise control with stop-and-go support is not really the same as cruise-control in free flowing traffic. I rarely use cruise-control in normal traffic, but the stop-and-go cruise…

I would love adaptive cruise control for Seattle area traffic. What kind of car do you have?

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#375

Post by mulmen »

swebs wrote: post #253
mulmen wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should just revoke drivers licenses for people who can't operate cars responsibly. It's way too easy to get a license and keep one in the US today. We don't even re-test.

I doubt people would use their phones during the test.

Then why have driver training at all? As it stands a person could drive for 60 years without ever being instructed in changing rules of the road. This is independent of someone driving their car irresponsibly which should be punished more severely.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#376

Post by inferiorhuman »

emodendroket wrote: post #340
Johnny555 wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure you understand persistent stop and go traffic -- shifting between neutral and first gets awfully tiring after 45+ minutes when you have to do it every day. Putting the car in neutral doesn't really solve that problem. Adaptive cruise control with stop-and-go support is not really the same as cruise-control in free flowing traffic. I rarely use cruise-control in normal traffic, but the stop-and-go cruise…

I used to drive from Connecticut to Queens every single morning. I am familiar with the concept of traffic. Nobody in their right mind enjoys driving in heavy traffic no matter what car they're in.

> I used to drive from Connecticut to Queens every single morning.

That doesn't seem like a bad drive. Try two hours from Western SF to the Golden Gate Bridge (roughly six miles).

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#377

Post by dmd »

int_handler wrote: post #313
t0mbstone wrote: post #163

Speaking as someone who has owned a number of sports cars with manual transmissions, I can tell you why I finally made the switch to automatic: Adaptive cruise control in stop and go traffic. I used to have to deal with a six-speed manual transmission in stop and go traffic for an hour every day, and it was pure torture. I mean, sure, it was fun for a weekend drive in the mountains, but it sucked the rest of the time…

Driving a manual car isn't about efficiency. It is about driver engagement. Yes, you can row your own gears with paddle shifters, but no automatic will ever give you the same kind of engagement or connectedness with the car as a manual with three pedals will. But yes, if there is a smoking gun for the death of the manual in America, it would be our crumbling, congested roads and absurdly long daily commutes.

Do you want a choke, too?

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#378

Post by inferiorhuman »

stouset wrote: post #358
city41 wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife and I both have manuals and we sit in stop and go traffic every day. Having to shift in traffic doesn't even register with my brain that it's really anything at all. I simply don't notice.

Yeah, I don't at all understand this mentality that stick shift is a burden in stop and go traffic. I've since switched to a motorcycle, but when I used to drive stick I can't say I ever really noticed or paid attention to the fact that I was having to shift, even in stop and go traffic. After you've gotten comfortable with shifting it just fades completely into the background.

> Yeah, I don't at all understand this mentality that stick shift is a burden in stop and go traffic.

It's a burden if you're stuck in bad traffic, if you've got a heavy clutch, or if you're crawling up a hill. Worse if you've got more than one of those compounding factors.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#379

Post by camhutch »

ummonk wrote: post #333
toomanybeersies wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never had a huge issue with driving in stop-go traffic with a manual. It really depends on the type of car you're driving though, I guess. Driving a sports car with a grippy clutch is going to be painful. Driving a $750, 20 year old Mazda with a 2 L engine and a soft clutch isn't too bad at all, you just sort of ride the clutch (which I am aware isn't great for it). I think that there is nothing that beats drivi…

It isn’t that manual is bad at stop and go traffic. It is that adaptive cruise control is really great at it, and adaptive cruise control is only available on automatics.

My manual VW Golf would like to have a word with you.

I don't drive in stop-start traffic, so I don't know how well it would work, but my manual VW Golf MK VII has adaptive cruise control. If you need to shift up or down, you just do so and cruise control re-engages.

I'm pretty much always in 6th gear when I've got ACC enabled.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#380

Post by inferiorhuman »

int_handler wrote: post #313
t0mbstone wrote: post #163

Speaking as someone who has owned a number of sports cars with manual transmissions, I can tell you why I finally made the switch to automatic: Adaptive cruise control in stop and go traffic. I used to have to deal with a six-speed manual transmission in stop and go traffic for an hour every day, and it was pure torture. I mean, sure, it was fun for a weekend drive in the mountains, but it sucked the rest of the time…

Driving a manual car isn't about efficiency. It is about driver engagement. Yes, you can row your own gears with paddle shifters, but no automatic will ever give you the same kind of engagement or connectedness with the car as a manual with three pedals will. But yes, if there is a smoking gun for the death of the manual in America, it would be our crumbling, congested roads and absurdly long daily commutes.

> Driving a manual car isn't about efficiency.

It was about efficiency and cost for ages though. That's why manuals were popular and why they aren't popular in the US anymore. Modern automatics (dual clutch, CVTs, even computer controlled single clutch and plain old torque converter slushboxes) are so much more efficient now that manuals don't make as much sense as they used to.

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