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How America lost its love for the stick shift

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Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#221

Post by r00fus »

0x00000000 wrote: post #208
t0mbstone wrote: post #163

Speaking as someone who has owned a number of sports cars with manual transmissions, I can tell you why I finally made the switch to automatic: Adaptive cruise control in stop and go traffic. I used to have to deal with a six-speed manual transmission in stop and go traffic for an hour every day, and it was pure torture. I mean, sure, it was fun for a weekend drive in the mountains, but it sucked the rest of the time…

To each their own, but stop and go traffic does not exist in the absence of stoplights if you leave adequate space in front of you. If you tailgate, ride your brakes, or have to stop completely you are contributing to traffic jams behind you. I drive a 6 speed in one of the worst traffic areas in the US every day.

This is pure conjecture. You cannot control how traffic behaves, and if you constantly let people go in front of you, people behind you will get irrationally angry (danger exposure).

Yeah you can smooth things out and inject a bit more zen into your experience by accelerating and decelerating more gently and leaving a larger than normal gap, but stop&go simply exists and is a pain even with an automatic.

Adaptive cruise is a godsend.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#222

Post by 0x00000000 »

tedunangst wrote: post #212
0x00000000 wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To each their own, but stop and go traffic does not exist in the absence of stoplights if you leave adequate space in front of you. If you tailgate, ride your brakes, or have to stop completely you are contributing to traffic jams behind you. I drive a 6 speed in one of the worst traffic areas in the US every day.

How much space do I need to leave if the car in front of me is stopped?

Enough so you can gradually slow down until they start to move without stopping yourself. Watch how big rig drivers drive in traffic where it is almost required that you don't keep repeatedly stopping.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#223

Post by taeric »

rootusrootus wrote: post #183
taeric wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I confess I gained a ton of respect for Klik & Klack was when they gave the advice to not teach kids on a stick shift. This is akin to teaching a kid to ride a 21 speed bike. They can probably get up to that rather quickly, all told, but just learning the basics of balance and pedaling will already be difficult enough. Similarly, just learning the basics of the car will already be tough. Why add to it? Why not take a…

I'm not sure it's really that big a deal. My dad taught me to drive by going out to a lonely national park with a lot of parking lots and letting me figure it out. On an automatic, yes. 20 minutes later he said, okay, good, now drive us home. And I did. Driving isn't that magic. So I will probably teach my kids how to drive our pickup first, and then for laughs we will take my 455 horsepower Camaro out to learn how a…

Driving is one of those things that most of us probably have no clue how everyone else actually thinks about and does it.

To that end, I just don't know. I expect I will have an issue teaching my children. Biking has already thrown me some curve balls. Nothing insurmountable. But the more you have on the bike, the harder it is for the learner to get it going.

I mean, I hate biking without my shoes that attach to the pedal nowdays. I would not at all attempt to teach my kids on such a bike for a while.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#224

Post by opencl »

kenhwang wrote: post #104
mikestew wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know why automatics are sealed these days? They don't expect them to need service. Here in the U. S., I actually had to call around to find someone that would do a clutch. When I was a Firestone mechanic lo those twenty some years ago, we'd drop a tranny and throw clutch plates in all the time (book time paid more time than it took me to do it). Neither of the local Firestones would touch it when I called. Point…

Most modern DCTs are wet clutch which should last more or less forever. Ford/Volvo's dry clutch DCTs probably still require regular clutch plate replacements. Torque converters pretty much last forever on infrequent fluid changes or the whole unit fails.

Ford's dry clutch DCT (used only in the Focus and Fiesta, all of the other Ford/Volvo models are wet clutch) is total junk and you're lucky if the clutch lasts more than 30k miles. They lost a class action lawsuit over it.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#225

Post by taeric »

bigger_cheese wrote: post #220
taeric wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I confess I gained a ton of respect for Klik & Klack was when they gave the advice to not teach kids on a stick shift. This is akin to teaching a kid to ride a 21 speed bike. They can probably get up to that rather quickly, all told, but just learning the basics of balance and pedaling will already be difficult enough. Similarly, just learning the basics of the car will already be tough. Why add to it? Why not take a…

When I was learning to drive my parents taught me in an old early 80's beat up station wagon. It was manual and had no power steering and the worst clutch I've ever used to this day. It took me a long time to learn to drive. A few years later they sold the car and both my sisters learnt to drive in more modern automatics. My learning experience was miserable but after learning in that old crappy wagon I can drive jus…

Would you teach someone on a vehicle without power steering? :)

Our truck has bad power steering. Such that it often handles as if it didn't have it. Holy crap is that a pain.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#226

Post by lizknope »

0x00000000 wrote: post #208
t0mbstone wrote: post #163

Speaking as someone who has owned a number of sports cars with manual transmissions, I can tell you why I finally made the switch to automatic: Adaptive cruise control in stop and go traffic. I used to have to deal with a six-speed manual transmission in stop and go traffic for an hour every day, and it was pure torture. I mean, sure, it was fun for a weekend drive in the mountains, but it sucked the rest of the time…

To each their own, but stop and go traffic does not exist in the absence of stoplights if you leave adequate space in front of you. If you tailgate, ride your brakes, or have to stop completely you are contributing to traffic jams behind you. I drive a 6 speed in one of the worst traffic areas in the US every day.

I can drive a stick. I borrowed my sister's car for 3 months and drove it on occasion at other times.

I define stop and go traffic as when I'm in 0-15mph traffic during rush hour on the Interstate.

If I leave a large enough gap so that I don't constantly have to press the clutch from stalling then someone else will move in front of me and then I have to hit the brakes as well.

No thanks. Automatic for me.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#227

Post by pluto9 »

0x00000000 wrote: post #208
t0mbstone wrote: post #163

Speaking as someone who has owned a number of sports cars with manual transmissions, I can tell you why I finally made the switch to automatic: Adaptive cruise control in stop and go traffic. I used to have to deal with a six-speed manual transmission in stop and go traffic for an hour every day, and it was pure torture. I mean, sure, it was fun for a weekend drive in the mountains, but it sucked the rest of the time…

To each their own, but stop and go traffic does not exist in the absence of stoplights if you leave adequate space in front of you. If you tailgate, ride your brakes, or have to stop completely you are contributing to traffic jams behind you. I drive a 6 speed in one of the worst traffic areas in the US every day.

If you leave more than a few car lengths between yourself and the next guy at rush hour, someone will quickly fill that gap.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#228

Post by BeetleB »

taeric wrote: post #157
jedberg wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found that having a stick in traffic was actually easier for me. I could keep it in one gear which meant not moving my foot from brake to gas (I could just use engine breaking and use just the gas).

This is dangerous, as you aren't signaling people behind you if you are braking... Edit: I would likely soften the "dangerous" wording above. I'm not trying to claim this is guaranteed to get you killed. Just pointing out that bypassing a well established signaling mechanism of your vehicle should be a deliberate act. Not one of convenience.

>This is dangerous, as you aren't signaling people behind you if you are braking...

Engine braking results in a slow drop in speed. If the car behind you cannot handle a slow speed decline, he is the problem, and is driving too close to you.

Most good instructors teach students to try to slow down as much as possible just by getting your foot off the accelerator (not with engine braking, and not with real brakes).

As in don't wait till you are near the stop light to apply the brakes - just get your foot off the gas much earlier, and apply the brakes when you have to. In real terms, when driving at 45mph, I usually don't need to apply the brakes until I'm at 35 or 30mph. Puts less load on the brakes, and is supposed to be safer - you are easing into a lower speed as opposed to doing it suddenly.

The people behind you will not see a brake light, but will still slow down behind you. If they hit you, they are driving poorly.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#229

Post by stephengillie »

Someone1234 wrote: post #86
IshKebab wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are manuals not cheaper to manufacture and repair? Definitely in the UK since 90% of cars are still manual.

Even if they are, a CVT saves enough fuel over its lifetime to offset the cost (5 MpG combined more efficient in some cases). The UK is moving away from manuals for hybrid and fully electric vehicles which often use a CVT, or no transmission in some cases (direct drive).

Electric vehicles do use an assembly of gears to adjust ratios for optimal torque - but just the one gear. It's still a transmission.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#230

Post by d1zzy »

Heh I just bought a new car in the US and it's a manual (and it's not even a sports car). Why? Because I don't care as much about adaptive cruise control (I bike to work so the car is mostly for long drives) and it was $1200 cheaper (of course that's also going to matter when selling the car but if I tend to drive cars into the ground, 20+ years of use or more so that's not an issue). I don't feel strongly about either automatic or manual, both have their pros and cons, but if there's a significant price difference I'll go for the cheaper option.
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