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Brazil: A look into Latin America’s largest startup ecosystem (2017)

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Re: Brazil: A look into Latin America’s largest startup ecosystem (2017)

#41
I'm Brazilian and I tried building a company there after two successful products both in the EU and US.

Brazil simply doesn't have the culture that's necessary to foster a startup ecosystem.

Chile is in a much better position to be that sort of local leader, but still only relatively.

And it's not something you can change by prosecuting corrupt politicians - it goes all the way back to our colonial heritage, and the crookedness and "classicism" will always hinder the progress of companies and, more sadly, great engineers and entrepneurs.

This stereotype that "we're the most creative" is just another self entitlement like soccer or beautiful women that may build a brand, but certainly doesn't represent reality or live it up to its expectations.

I've come to realize that a Brazilian in power is often a synonym of extreme arrogance, shallowness, selfishness and an unbearable classicism that leads to an unfathomable mistreatment of both customers and employees.

It's unlike any other elites from the western world. It might compare to some countries in Africa.

If you're an investor thinking about Brazil , either understand and live by that culture or lose your money. They won't change the habits they gathered for a lifetime just because you have money or moral authority.

If you're Brazilian and talented, either as an engineer or entrepreneur, get out. Look for jobs remotely, incorporate a company in another country, find a market fit in a healthy economy that selects based on the productivity, efficiency and quality of your work.

Don't gamble your potential, talent and safety for the sake of FOMO on companies that rich, talentless, spoiled kids built with family money, and even our own (as taxpayers).

Re: Brazil: A look into Latin America’s largest startup ecosystem (2017)

#42

Maybe the country has the largest ecosystem because there are a lot of people in there. That doesn't imply in high quality, positive ROIs etc. Lots of people are just trying.

The country has some decent universities, some large and rich cities (despite the country, being, on average, poor) and some entrepreneurial attitude.

The drawback I observed the most is the same @cscotti pointed out: the people who end up creating companies are not particularly well suited for that. They want quick money out of outrageous profit margins - they are often already rich, but think they are entitled to more. It's the Brazilian version of the robber baron standard, but in a fractal pattern almost down to the bottom.

And, now, there's also the crazy politics (thanks, Obama) with a coup and all those shenanigans.

Re: Brazil: A look into Latin America’s largest startup ecosystem (2017)

#43
post #6
post #2

It's a myth that Brazilians are more creative. Doing business in Brazil is incredibly difficult - lack of talent, ethics and terrible financial sector.

Lack of competitive pay makes talent leave the country (source: I have many friends working in startups in USA due to better working conditions).

Source, yours truly.

But what drove me away was not the money - I make a lot more money now, but in a much more expensive place. Retirement projections remain firmly planted on the very same date since I left and aren't going to change much either way unless some major upheaval happens.

What really drove me out was my lack of faith. Corruption was rampant (it was always like this, since well before I was born) but it was being investigated, in some cases more seriously than others, but the local equivalents to the DoJ and the FBI (I'm doing this for the Americans in the audience, hope it helps), for the first time since essentially ever, able to work free from executive interference and, unsurprisingly, uncovered a lot of misdeeds. With that, the perceived corruption skyrocketed, government popularity sunk, trust in the government went into a death spiral and the legislative and judiciary decided it'd be convenient to stage a coup (sorry, "impeachment" is not the right word) so that someone more malleable would be in power (there was even a phone recording stating that much).

At that moment I was over for me. I grew up in post-64 coup Brazil and don't want my daughter to go through the same.

Re: Brazil: A look into Latin America’s largest startup ecosystem (2017)

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Brazilians take the entire day off to go to the bank That is completely false. I can’t imagine where you got this from. Brazilian baking is years ahead of the US, not that it represents a high bar.

> I can’t imagine where you got this from. Perhaps from daily life? There are long lines on most bank branches I go to, unless you're wealthy enough for the manager to pamper you. Red tape in this country is so bad that there is a whole industry to avoid it ("despachantes"). BTW, the trick this industry uses to avoid banking lines is to hire old retired people to buck the line for them (there's a law here giving to o…

Most banks don't require you to be physically present anymore. I don't know about Banco do Brasil, but I had accounts in Bradesco and Santander, both have a line to call your manager in a call center, and you can do pretty much everything besides getting physical cash from the phone.

Re: Brazil: A look into Latin America’s largest startup ecosystem (2017)

#45
post #41

I'm Brazilian and I tried building a company there after two successful products both in the EU and US. Brazil simply doesn't have the culture that's necessary to foster a startup ecosystem. Chile is in a much better position to be that sort of local leader, but still only relatively. And it's not something you can change by prosecuting corrupt politicians - it goes all the way back to our colonial heritage, and the…

> Brazil simply has no culture to foster an ecosystem of startups.

Yes. A startups incubator in Brazil had a 'pool of developers': if a startup needed a developer, just enter the pool. Incubator startups had just one busines founder, never a technical founder. The technical things in Brazilian culture are irrelevant (any 'manual work' is, and developer is a manual work in Brazil culture).

Re: Brazil: A look into Latin America’s largest startup ecosystem (2017)

#46
There is no venture capital here. The biggest funds (Redpoint, etc) here are in fact "growth" funds, i.e. once you get a revenue about BRL 1,000,000 per quarter, you will be considered otherwise good luck. Try to build a technology company here and get the funds and then let me know.

Incubators are in fact cheap outsourced innovation departments of large companies. Once you get there (which is not difficult), they will steer your solution to fit the large corporation behind. Largest companies pay lip service saying they support "innovation" by providing start-up competitions. In fact, they buy almost none from start-ups. They are in fact searching for cheap or free technology ideas and services. Absolutely no significant success has come from corporate incubators in Brazil. You are there as a small piece on the board.

My advice to start-ups in Brazil? Build as much as you can by bootstrapping and try to sell as early as possible and avoid any "free" pilots by corporations trying to use your solution. Charge and charge upfront. I sadly see too many start-ups providing free services to large companies in exchange of vague promises. You are just a piece used by employees in these large companies to promote innovation and cheap solutions.

if large comporations want to support startups they should sign a CONTRACT and BUY from you. That's it! Anything else is just exploitation of technical talent and naiveté from your start-up founds.

Re: Brazil: A look into Latin America’s largest startup ecosystem (2017)

#47
post #41

I'm Brazilian and I tried building a company there after two successful products both in the EU and US. Brazil simply doesn't have the culture that's necessary to foster a startup ecosystem. Chile is in a much better position to be that sort of local leader, but still only relatively. And it's not something you can change by prosecuting corrupt politicians - it goes all the way back to our colonial heritage, and the…

I believe you mean "classism".

Re: Brazil: A look into Latin America’s largest startup ecosystem (2017)

#48
post #42

Maybe the country has the largest ecosystem because there are a lot of people in there. That doesn't imply in high quality, positive ROIs etc. Lots of people are just trying.

The country has some decent universities, some large and rich cities (despite the country, being, on average, poor) and some entrepreneurial attitude. The drawback I observed the most is the same @cscotti pointed out: the people who end up creating companies are not particularly well suited for that. They want quick money out of outrageous profit margins - they are often already rich, but think they are entitled to m…

Brazil absolutely was a Baron country for most of its life (except they were more commonly called Colonels or Captains). Starting on the 16th century the Portuguese kingdom would distribute land for agrarian usage, and the Barons not only owned the land but its ownership was also hereditary. An intricate taxation system was developed that stimulated lang aggregation and so not long after you'd find many of these land owner families owned immense tracts of land - larger than cities or states, and became very rich.

As centuries passed, this system of power persisted, and there is still very very old money in Brazil. Many of these families would give tracts of land away for poor people in exchange of political support, and so they grew into the national political scene. Numerous past presidents came from these families (such as Sarney and Collor).

In short: Brazil has a longstanding colonial culture that persists even though its population might not be aware of it. All its symptoms are still there, including distrust in political entities, assertion of political power by intimidation or populism, archaic taxation systems, and a general sense of powerlessness to change things.

Re: Brazil: A look into Latin America’s largest startup ecosystem (2017)

#49

I'm a Brazilian who use to work at some startups here. I have a strong feeling that we didn't produce more and better companies because of two things: 1) Public Universities here hates private money and do business, entrepreneur classes are rare and most of the teachers never did create a company (to teach here you must be an academic, a successful entrepreneur can't give classes about it). If you suggest to your tea…

”Labour protection here is insane too. It's not cheap for small and medium companies. And there is a thing that makes it even more complicated for startups: legally, the owner of the company is in charge of the labor debts even when the company is broken. So, if your company broke, you can't close it until you pay all the labor debts, and if you don't pay, you can lose your home or other assets that belong to you, no…

But I'm not talking about wages. I'm talking about other rigths that an employee has, for example: if you bankrupt and need to fire you employees, you'll be forced to pay a fine of 40% of the FGTS (FGTS it's like a saving account the company is obligated to pay in name of they employees).

Re: Brazil: A look into Latin America’s largest startup ecosystem (2017)

#50
post #40

I'm a Brazilian who use to work at some startups here. I have a strong feeling that we didn't produce more and better companies because of two things: 1) Public Universities here hates private money and do business, entrepreneur classes are rare and most of the teachers never did create a company (to teach here you must be an academic, a successful entrepreneur can't give classes about it). If you suggest to your tea…

1) That's far from true. I had a company in an incubator associated with one of the largest federal universities. Professors were supportive, overall. A few helped with contacts in the industry and ideas. 2) The overall tax rate isn't that bad (I live in England now, you'd be surprised). The tax system is complicated but for small companies, falling under Simples rules, it's fairly easy. Re. labour laws, the fact tha…

1) Some universities are good, but most of our public universities are not. UFMG, USP, Unicamp, UFRJ and some others are exceptions, not the rule.

2) I agree completely that the tax rate is not bad, it's around 30%, less than Germany and other countries. The problem is the number of taxes and how complicated is our tax system.

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