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Brazil: A look into Latin America’s largest startup ecosystem (2017)

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Re: Brazil: A look into Latin America’s largest startup ecosystem (2017)

#31

Post by oddx »

chrisbennet wrote: post #29
diegoholiveira wrote: post #23

I'm a Brazilian who use to work at some startups here. I have a strong feeling that we didn't produce more and better companies because of two things: 1) Public Universities here hates private money and do business, entrepreneur classes are rare and most of the teachers never did create a company (to teach here you must be an academic, a successful entrepreneur can't give classes about it). If you suggest to your tea…

”Labour protection here is insane too. It's not cheap for small and medium companies. And there is a thing that makes it even more complicated for startups: legally, the owner of the company is in charge of the labor debts even when the company is broken. So, if your company broke, you can't close it until you pay all the labor debts, and if you don't pay, you can lose your home or other assets that belong to you, no…

> This is pretty normal

Can anyone comment how common it is? Isn't normal in Europe? US? Other countries?

Re: Brazil: A look into Latin America’s largest startup ecosystem (2017)

#32

Post by malandrew »

lucashn wrote: post #6
rs86 wrote: post #2

It's a myth that Brazilians are more creative. Doing business in Brazil is incredibly difficult - lack of talent, ethics and terrible financial sector.

Lack of competitive pay makes talent leave the country (source: I have many friends working in startups in USA due to better working conditions).

Couldn't agree more. Of all the engineers I worked with back in Brazil that I would happily work with again, more than 75% of them left Brazil. They now live in places like the San Francisco, Palo Alto, NYC, Toronto, Montreal, Berlin, Amsterdam, London. What's most ridiculous is that at the recent BayBrazil event here in São Paulo, I explicitly asked the panelists if the situation had changed since when I worked there a manager would make 2.5x to 3x what the ICs earned. Every single panelist dodged the question by spouting some bullshit about how people have other motivations besides money for staying in Brazil. Yeah, I'm sure a minority of them do, the majority however keep leaving.

Re: Brazil: A look into Latin America’s largest startup ecosystem (2017)

#33

Post by lucasfcosta »

I must say that even though it might look great for investors and business owners, software engineers suffer a lot.

In the recent years, the situation in Brazil has only got worse. The BRL is worth nothing and engineers get a lot less than anywhere here in Europe or the US.

Life quality is also bad and it's rare to find a good work environment, especially outside São Paulo.

If I had to go back to Brazil, São Paulo is definitely the only city I would live in.

Re: Brazil: A look into Latin America’s largest startup ecosystem (2017)

#34

Post by d4mi3n »

oddx wrote: post #31
chrisbennet wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

”Labour protection here is insane too. It's not cheap for small and medium companies. And there is a thing that makes it even more complicated for startups: legally, the owner of the company is in charge of the labor debts even when the company is broken. So, if your company broke, you can't close it until you pay all the labor debts, and if you don't pay, you can lose your home or other assets that belong to you, no…

> This is pretty normal Can anyone comment how common it is? Isn't normal in Europe? US? Other countries?

I can’t speak for all of the US, but this is California law: a business owner is _personally_ liable for unpaid wages in the event of bankruptcy. The Department of Labor does not take kindly to people or business who cheat their employees out of a rightfully earned paycheck.

Re: Brazil: A look into Latin America’s largest startup ecosystem (2017)

#35

Post by [deleted] »

gdsimoes wrote: post #28
epx wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am Brazilian and it's been a year since I went into a bank to do anything. All expat friends say that Brazilian bank system is the best. This has a specific reason: inflation in 1980s imposed fast banking service.

I am a Brazilian currently living in Canada and I was very surprised when I discovered that Brazil’s banks are actually much better than Canada’s.

[deleted]

Re: Brazil: A look into Latin America’s largest startup ecosystem (2017)

#36

Post by zekrioca »

diegoholiveira wrote: post #23

I'm a Brazilian who use to work at some startups here. I have a strong feeling that we didn't produce more and better companies because of two things: 1) Public Universities here hates private money and do business, entrepreneur classes are rare and most of the teachers never did create a company (to teach here you must be an academic, a successful entrepreneur can't give classes about it). If you suggest to your tea…

It is not only in Brazil that only academics can be responsible for lectures at universities, it is all over around the world.

Re: Brazil: A look into Latin America’s largest startup ecosystem (2017)

#37

Post by iagovar »

tambourine_man wrote: post #15
diego_moita wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can’t imagine where you got this from. Perhaps from daily life? There are long lines on most bank branches I go to, unless you're wealthy enough for the manager to pamper you. Red tape in this country is so bad that there is a whole industry to avoid it ("despachantes"). BTW, the trick this industry uses to avoid banking lines is to hire old retired people to buck the line for them (there's a law here giving to o…

Red tape is bad, but obiquious cellphones helps a lot. The US still uses checks and signed credit card receipts. Compared to that Brazil’s banking system is state of the art. >To do online banking in your computer with Banco do Brasil you need to ask permission to your branch manager and install a virus on your computer Yes, but most people use the phone app, which is ok. Banking on a computer is bad everywhere.

Online banking in Spain is pretty ok with a computer dude. I mean I have accounts with 4 different banks and only one of them has an awful website. Still usable thoug.

Re: Brazil: A look into Latin America’s largest startup ecosystem (2017)

#38

Post by rbanffy »

diegoholiveira wrote: post #23

I'm a Brazilian who use to work at some startups here. I have a strong feeling that we didn't produce more and better companies because of two things: 1) Public Universities here hates private money and do business, entrepreneur classes are rare and most of the teachers never did create a company (to teach here you must be an academic, a successful entrepreneur can't give classes about it). If you suggest to your tea…

> entrepreneur classes are rare

It's not optimal, but it's pretty common in management courses. I wish I had more of that in Engineering (even though we hated it at the time).

> Open a company in Brazil is crazy

Crazy? Try shutting one down to see what's crazy.

> Labour protection here is insane too

I have to disagree with you on that one. As an entrepreneur, you have responsibilities towards your employees. Far too frequently you see entrepreneurs who think they are doing employees a favor by giving them jobs when very few realize that they hired people because they couldn't do it themselves. It's a privilege to have a smart team working to make your dreams true.

Re: Brazil: A look into Latin America’s largest startup ecosystem (2017)

#39

Post by rbanffy »

fb03 wrote: post #21

Brazil has the potential to be good and make anything bloom, be it startups, big corp etc. It has a good geographic area, plenty of natural resources (water, oil) and whatnot. BUT! What keeps Brazil from entering the row of 'actually a good place to live' countries is nothing but the rampant corruption and the sheer amount of bureaucracy involved in anything regulation or taxes in the country. It's not a matter of si…

We also have a very serious issue with electing the wrong people. São Paulo, the richest state in the country, has been electing the same centre-right (dressed as centre-left) kleptocrats for about 30 years now, with disastrous results.

And don't get me started on that "impeachment" shitshow.

Re: Brazil: A look into Latin America’s largest startup ecosystem (2017)

#40

Post by vpb »

diegoholiveira wrote: post #23

I'm a Brazilian who use to work at some startups here. I have a strong feeling that we didn't produce more and better companies because of two things: 1) Public Universities here hates private money and do business, entrepreneur classes are rare and most of the teachers never did create a company (to teach here you must be an academic, a successful entrepreneur can't give classes about it). If you suggest to your tea…

1) That's far from true. I had a company in an incubator associated with one of the largest federal universities. Professors were supportive, overall. A few helped with contacts in the industry and ideas.

2) The overall tax rate isn't that bad (I live in England now, you'd be surprised). The tax system is complicated but for small companies, falling under Simples rules, it's fairly easy.

Re. labour laws, the fact that labour debts aren't protected by limited liability is fairly bad.

Re. regulated, yeah, it's also pretty complicated to get good legal counsel, despite the amount of law school graduates.

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