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A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

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Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#121

Post by DogOnTheWeb »

lewis500 wrote: post #15

I don’t understand why this study is receiving so much attention. It’s not peer reviewed. It doesn’t contain actual data collection (the estimates are all extrapolated in a way the author considers reasonable, not measured data from traffic detectors or surveys). Schaller is not a researcher or engineer, but a consultant mainly working for taxi regulation. That doesn’t mean it’s wrong. But I’m surprised the study get…

For what it's worth, the article also links to a study with the same conclusion out of UC Davis.

https://steps.ucdavis.edu/new-research-ride-hailing-impacts-...

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#122

Post by artursapek »

chimeracoder wrote: post #87
lotsofpulp wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the major benefits in some cities of Uber/Lyft over public transportation is not risking interaction with thementally ill, inebriated, panhandlers, or otherwise dangerous people (like the dancers on the NYC subway).

> or otherwise dangerous people (like the dancers on the NYC subway). ...what did the dancers ever do to you?

They regularly attack people for not getting out of their way. They are thugs.

https://nypost.com/2017/02/23/dancers-attack-straphanger-who...

http://thesource.com/2016/01/13/one-of-the-infamous-showtime...

https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20171006/midtown/nypd-polic...

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#123

Post by komali2 »

francisofascii wrote: post #22
pwned1 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ubers and Lyfts pay the $0.25 per gallon New York gas tax, plus sales tax on top of both state and federal gas taxes (tax on a tax), so they are paying for road infrastructure, just like everyone else. It's important to note that public transit agencies don't pay gas tax, and a large portion of the federal highway fund is diverted to public transit agencies.

$0.25/gallon is roughly a penny a mile. Besides road maintenance, cars also get the right of way, add to the noise/air pollution, and add grave danger to pedestrians, all for a penny a mile.

Since the things you just said apply equally across all cars per mile driven, regardless of the reason those cars are being driven (taxis, private, whatever), wouldn't the solution be "increase the gas tax" rather than "ban uber?"

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#124

Post by pvarangot »

nradov wrote: post #55
lotsofpulp wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the major benefits in some cities of Uber/Lyft over public transportation is not risking interaction with thementally ill, inebriated, panhandlers, or otherwise dangerous people (like the dancers on the NYC subway).

Several people (mainly women) have told me that they're afraid to take public transit in the SF Bay Area due to the other riders. I'm not sure how we fix that problem without restricting civil rights in ways that would be unconstitutional and politically unacceptable. It's a real dilemma.

Besides the obvious "surveilance and punishment" approach, the other politically incorrect but sometimes proven effective approach is raise public transportation prices a lot and then subsidize it if you have a stable job, a family, no criminal record, etc, etc. Of course this includes the word "subsidize" so it may be politically charged as a proposal in the USA, or so I've heard.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#125

Post by komali2 »

manigandham wrote: post #28
eli wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You left out "public transportation." There is very strong anecdotal evidence that here in DC a large number of people take Uber where they used to take Metro.

Many places, like in California, do not have good public transportation and Uber is the only decent option. That statement in the article is definitely a heavy assumption.

The counter argument is that you no longer feel pressure to kick the issue to your congressperson to push for public transit, because a "good enough" solution has been presented (a solution that isn't as good for the environment or city than a bus).

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#126

Post by abalone »

Doesn't link to the study. Why is there no mention of taxis? Clearly if people are ridesharing instead of taking public transit, that's less efficient. But ridesharing is vastly more efficient than how it used to be with taxi hailing. They'd circle the streets looking for fares and there was little to no pooling.

It's highly plausible that people are choosing rideshares over public transit / walking / biking, leading to an overall increase. It's believable. But to truly assess it we need to deduct the old taxi system. With no mention of that and no link to the source study it's hard to tell if they did.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#127

Post by habosa »

I'm not sure if Uber/Lyft put more cars on the road, but I'm sure that Uber and Lyft drivers do things that cause traffic.

Many analyses of traffic have shown that individual drivers can cause huge downstream traffic effects. When you see an Uber driver just stop at a corner at a major intersection, there can be 10-15 cars slowed by having to wait or go around.

Biking around SF has made me very wary of certain car models popular for Uber. If I see a Prius I assume it could stop anywhere at any time.

Even with all that ... These services may still be a net positive. I use them a lot on the weekends and would never be able to get around the city like I do without them.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#128

Post by macspoofing »

gammateam wrote: post #88
nine_k wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe some people, especially urban-based, just like the anti-car narrative, so they link to it as to something that confirms their favorite POV. I bet city officials in most places don't like ride-hailing companies, too, so they would gladly link to something like this, for the same reason. Maybe every other reader would look at it and say: "Hey, this has no data, and the author's position produces an obvious confli…

Why does it have to be an anti-car narrative, or something insidious Why do you think limited-supply medallion systems existed in the first place? Come on this is just classic "I forgot why these regulations existed and now a 100 year old problem is being recreated" A form of limited licensing for ride-hailing companies can exist without any of the inputs from the taxicab lobby and work out really well.

>Why does it have to be an anti-car narrative, or something insidious

Because there is an ideological (i.e. irrational) component to some objections. It's true.

>Why do you think limited-supply medallion systems existed in the first place

Taxi lobby pressuring municipal governments? I cannot imagine you using the past system as an example of a well-run program. There was never a good reason to limit the number of taxicabs on the streets. There were good reasons for some regulations, such as driver registration, transparent pricing, vehicle standards, but not regulations around limiting number of vehicles.

>"I forgot why these regulations existed and now a 100 year old problem is being recreated"

There is no new problem recreated. Your argument went away when EVERYONE could afford a car and clogged the streets anyway. In the present day, any transportation option that incentivizes people not to own a car is good.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#129

Post by Spooky23 »

nine_k wrote: post #75
vkou wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gas tax does not go nearly enough of the way to paying for infrastructure. Most road maintenance is paid for by property and income taxes. $0.25/gallon is peanuts. New York (State) consumed ~135 million barrels of gas last year. That's 1.35 billion dollars of gas taxes. (Less in reality, because some commercial uses are exempt from these taxes, or can deduct them as expenses.) The NY DOT's maintenance budget, alone i…

Is NY DOT known for frugal and efficient use of funds? (I don't know, so I'm asking. E.g. MTA is known for the opposite.)

MTA has many onerous labor issues that the NYS and NYC DOT don't need to deal with.

They are reasonably efficient stewards of tax dollars. Most of their spending is at least partially federally funded, so they are subject to many layers of audit.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#130

Post by criddell »

NickBusey wrote: post #18

>> .. when people use a ride-hailing company, they are opting to do so rather than take public transportation, walk or bike. They generally are not choosing between hailing and driving themselves. This doesn't seem correct to me. If I can ride my bike or walk somewhere, I will do that pretty much every time. The only time I ever consider an Uber or Lyft is if the distance is too far to bike, and I would rather not dr…

Biking or walking is a great solution when you live someplace with decent weather. I'm in Central Texas and unless your office has showers (mine does), there's no way you can walk or bike to work for half the year.
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