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A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

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Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#21

Uber is worse for congestion than someone driving their own car, because in addition to making the same trip, the Uber car also drives considerable distances without a passenger.

Yes. The only traffic/land usage-related improvement from "ridesharing" is that less space is needed for parking. Not that that isn't important, of course.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#22
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Uber isn't perfect, but banning it doesn't magically fix the subway. There's no doubt there are issues with public transit, but letting the rideshare services run rampant, while being effectively subsidized by the taxpayers roads, etc is no solution either. >> U.S. ridership is surging, he said — up 37% last year, to 2.6 billion passengers, from 2016. >> It found that, in U.S. cities, 49% to 61% of ride-hailing tr…

Ubers and Lyfts pay the $0.25 per gallon New York gas tax, plus sales tax on top of both state and federal gas taxes (tax on a tax), so they are paying for road infrastructure, just like everyone else. It's important to note that public transit agencies don't pay gas tax, and a large portion of the federal highway fund is diverted to public transit agencies.

$0.25/gallon is roughly a penny a mile. Besides road maintenance, cars also get the right of way, add to the noise/air pollution, and add grave danger to pedestrians, all for a penny a mile.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#23
post #7

There's a simple solution to this -- buses! We don't even need public tax dollars to pay for them. There were plenty of startups that wanted to run "Uber, but with a bus instead of a Car" and they all died because of regulation from the cities. Hell, Google (and other tech companies) will happily pay for its own buses to reduce VMT, but taking away street parking to add bus stops is political suicide in San Francisco…

The buses are fine. What's missing are the little screens that tell people when the bus is going to arrive. If buses arrive every fifteen minutes, and people would be willing to wait for a bus instead of Uber if the bus will arrive in less than five minutes, then simply adding screens means 33% of people no longer hail a ride. Yes, there is NextBus, but anyone who's used NextBus knows that it often takes longer to figure out when the bus will come than it does to simply order an Uber. Adding the screen improves the user experience: you don't even have to think about whether you feel like struggling with the stupid NextBus UI, and in fact, you don't have to take out your phone at all (a huge advantage IMO).

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#24

Uber is worse for congestion than someone driving their own car, because in addition to making the same trip, the Uber car also drives considerable distances without a passenger.

but you have to average that against the percent of the time it's uber pool and has 2-3 passengers that otherwise would have required separate trips

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#25

>> .. when people use a ride-hailing company, they are opting to do so rather than take public transportation, walk or bike. They generally are not choosing between hailing and driving themselves. This doesn't seem correct to me. If I can ride my bike or walk somewhere, I will do that pretty much every time. The only time I ever consider an Uber or Lyft is if the distance is too far to bike, and I would rather not dr…

Do you have a diverse set of friends? I think there's a set of folks who take public transit but don't walk or bike (either physically disabled or too afraid). Either the article is wrong, or this is a good time to fix your assumptions.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#26
post #2

A week ago, at the stop nearest me, the E train uptown was re-routed. The C train had an 18 minute wait (the next one after that -- 19 minutes). The station was somewhere north of 100 degrees F and packed. As the trains were one floor below the turnstiles, these issues were only visible AFTER swiping $3(A) to get into the station. The escalator was broken too, which is fine for me but bad for many others. Meanwhile,…

>> Uber isn't perfect, but banning it doesn't magically fix the subway. There's no doubt there are issues with public transit, but letting the rideshare services run rampant, while being effectively subsidized by the taxpayers roads, etc is no solution either. >> U.S. ridership is surging, he said — up 37% last year, to 2.6 billion passengers, from 2016. >> It found that, in U.S. cities, 49% to 61% of ride-hailing tr…

> [...] letting the rideshare services run rampant, while being effectively subsidized by the taxpayers roads, etc is no solution either.

Given that any additional taxes will be passed on to ride share users, why should taxpayers subsidize private car ownership but not use of the roads by ride share users?

A blanket congestion tax feels more fair to me.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#27
post #7

There's a simple solution to this -- buses! We don't even need public tax dollars to pay for them. There were plenty of startups that wanted to run "Uber, but with a bus instead of a Car" and they all died because of regulation from the cities. Hell, Google (and other tech companies) will happily pay for its own buses to reduce VMT, but taking away street parking to add bus stops is political suicide in San Francisco…

One of the major benefits in some cities of Uber/Lyft over public transportation is not risking interaction with thementally ill, inebriated, panhandlers, or otherwise dangerous people (like the dancers on the NYC subway).

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#28
post #20

>> .. when people use a ride-hailing company, they are opting to do so rather than take public transportation, walk or bike. They generally are not choosing between hailing and driving themselves. This doesn't seem correct to me. If I can ride my bike or walk somewhere, I will do that pretty much every time. The only time I ever consider an Uber or Lyft is if the distance is too far to bike, and I would rather not dr…

You left out "public transportation." There is very strong anecdotal evidence that here in DC a large number of people take Uber where they used to take Metro.

Many places, like in California, do not have good public transportation and Uber is the only decent option. That statement in the article is definitely a heavy assumption.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#29

>> .. when people use a ride-hailing company, they are opting to do so rather than take public transportation, walk or bike. They generally are not choosing between hailing and driving themselves. This doesn't seem correct to me. If I can ride my bike or walk somewhere, I will do that pretty much every time. The only time I ever consider an Uber or Lyft is if the distance is too far to bike, and I would rather not dr…

All you're doing is confounding anecdotal data with actual data because it feels good.

If you chase this back to the working paper, they received 4,094 completed responses from 5 major urban/suburban areas.

Those are valid numbers.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#30
post #7

There's a simple solution to this -- buses! We don't even need public tax dollars to pay for them. There were plenty of startups that wanted to run "Uber, but with a bus instead of a Car" and they all died because of regulation from the cities. Hell, Google (and other tech companies) will happily pay for its own buses to reduce VMT, but taking away street parking to add bus stops is political suicide in San Francisco…

Yeah, look at places like London, dedicated bus lanes make sure that buses are almost always on their set schedule. At least in Southern California we have the extra lanes that could be dedicated that.

The buses in London, for the most part, work very well. Every bus is tracked with GPS. If too wide a gap opens up between one bus and the next, the earlier bus will sometimes wait for a minute or so to even out the service. This means you almost never have to wait more than 2-3 minutes for a bus in central London, 5-6 at the outside.

While busses and bus routes used to be very difficult to parse, compared to the tube map, apps like Citymapper have made them accessible to all. I take the bus often, it's often faster than the tube, and always a more pleasant way to get around.

Citymapper is now launching its own 'smart' bus and Uber-like services, using the mountains of data they have on the door-to-door journies Londerners make to plan smart routes - some that change throughout the day to meet demand. I've used both the busses and the cars and they're both fantastic (the cars take you to your door for a fraction of the price of an Uber, if you're in the right place to catch one).

London has embraced Citymapper and vice-versa and they're doing some really interesting things without disrupting existing services.

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