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Why Can’t Apes Talk?

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Re: Why Can’t Apes Talk?

#31

Post by star-techate »

random314 wrote: post #17
amriksohata wrote: post #4

Hindus believes apes did talk at some point, or atleast one species existed that did talk. They were called Vanara. They no longer exist but this literature might point to some species that are now extinct, no fossilised evidence though would be hard to guage from fossils. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanara

Are we all going to pretend that an ancient mythological fairy tale text is the evidence of talking apes?

Nobody really is, or they'd be worrying about the evidence for talking snakes.

This is some kind of "the grass is greener on the other side" stuff. Local myths are absurd, but foreign myths are evidence.

Re: Why Can’t Apes Talk?

#32

Post by srean »

eklavya wrote: post #30
srean wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under the aegis of, Narendra "Ganesha is proof Hindus knew plastic surgery in vedic times" Modi, many self appointed spokesperson of what Hindu's believe in, have come out of the woodwork. They are the western analogue of humans riding on flying dinosaurs. Its the same phenomena. Now, we have our own Ku Klux Klan -- the cow rakshak's who are on a murderous spree with an implicit promise from the government that they…

Those people saying the same things were always there. They just get more news time nowadays. As long as the scientific progress is not hampered, I don't really care what the PM or some enthusiasts believe in. I think it's as harmless as people believing/not believing in God.

Huge difference. These are the decision makers of the country. These are the people who are going to decide which ideas to back, which institutes and projects to fund, what to turn a blind eye to.

As the famous advert goes -- there are many thing medicines cannot cure, for everything else there is cow piss. That's what will get funded.

Apparently the reasoning goes that there are a lot of vitamins and hormones in there. Last time I checked there is a lot in mine too. I wonder why dont they line up right here.

Re: Why Can’t Apes Talk?

#33

Post by morganvachon »

From the tagline: A recent study suggests they’ve got the voice but not the brains.

As pointed out early in the article, I had always read it was the other way around; their brains are advanced enough for rudimentary speech, but they lacked the vocal "hardware" that humans developed over time.

The fact that they can learn to sign and show true understanding of a non-verbal language seems to contradict the article's gist.

Re: Why Can’t Apes Talk?

#34

Post by eklavya »

srean wrote: post #32
eklavya wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those people saying the same things were always there. They just get more news time nowadays. As long as the scientific progress is not hampered, I don't really care what the PM or some enthusiasts believe in. I think it's as harmless as people believing/not believing in God.

Huge difference. These are the decision makers of the country. These are the people who are going to decide which ideas to back, which institutes and projects to fund, what to turn a blind eye to. As the famous advert goes -- there are many thing medicines cannot cure, for everything else there is cow piss. That's what will get funded. Apparently the reasoning goes that there are a lot of vitamins and hormones in the…

No need for “will”s. The term is near ended. Can you support your theory with real incidents? Which research was funded, which wasn’t funded?

Re: Why Can’t Apes Talk?

#35

Post by neel8986 »

srean wrote: post #14
amriksohata wrote: post #4

Hindus believes apes did talk at some point, or atleast one species existed that did talk. They were called Vanara. They no longer exist but this literature might point to some species that are now extinct, no fossilised evidence though would be hard to guage from fossils. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanara

Under the aegis of, Narendra "Ganesha is proof Hindus knew plastic surgery in vedic times" Modi, many self appointed spokesperson of what Hindu's believe in, have come out of the woodwork. They are the western analogue of humans riding on flying dinosaurs. Its the same phenomena. Now, we have our own Ku Klux Klan -- the cow rakshak's who are on a murderous spree with an implicit promise from the government that they…

It seems around the world being unscientific and plain stupid is a great asset for winning democratic elections. We will be horrified if a well know professional speaks such rubbish but somehow okay with the facts that such people can handle countries with multi-trillion dollar economy

Re: Why Can’t Apes Talk?

#37

Post by gxx »

morganvachon wrote: post #33

From the tagline: A recent study suggests they’ve got the voice but not the brains. As pointed out early in the article, I had always read it was the other way around; their brains are advanced enough for rudimentary speech, but they lacked the vocal "hardware" that humans developed over time. The fact that they can learn to sign and show true understanding of a non-verbal language seems to contradict the article's g…

The article says that apes can't talk because of limitations in the part of the brain that controls the muscles of the mouth. Their ability to sign shows they do have the mental capacity to learn to communicate but with their hands. This may not extend to speech specifically for the reasons discussed in the article.

Re: Why Can’t Apes Talk?

#38

Post by oftenwrong »

wasd884 wrote: post #29

I read this book not long ago: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Next-Kin-Conversations-Chimpanzees-... And in it the author (who spent decades working with and teaching chimps) concludes that chimps have the intelligence to talk but not the vocal chords. They can understand humans talking (in the same way that a dog can understand verbal commands) but they cannot do much besides grunt or hoot back. However when you change th…

The article suggests, based on some more-recent work, that primates can have "speech ready" anatomy. The article seems to be saying that both the intelligence for language and the anatomy for speech may be present, but not the necessary level of coordination between the two.

Re: Why Can’t Apes Talk?

#39

Post by srean »

eklavya wrote: post #34
srean wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huge difference. These are the decision makers of the country. These are the people who are going to decide which ideas to back, which institutes and projects to fund, what to turn a blind eye to. As the famous advert goes -- there are many thing medicines cannot cure, for everything else there is cow piss. That's what will get funded. Apparently the reasoning goes that there are a lot of vitamins and hormones in the…

No need for “will”s. The term is near ended. Can you support your theory with real incidents? Which research was funded, which wasn’t funded?

That would be tall task and full time work for a full group. I am a single person with an unrelated day job. That said, here's a few:

Panchgavya project, coordinated by the Indian Institute of Technology in Delhi, internally approved 34 proposals for research into panchgavya ... to make cow urine capsules

http://unnat.iitd.ac.in/index.php/Pages/display/news/urine_c...

https://thewire.in/the-sciences/cow-urine-distillate-cancer

IIT Delhi gets 50 research proposals to study benefits of cow urine under SVAROP program https://indianexpress.com/article/india/iit-delhi-gets-50-re...

"After its proposal to make floor cleaners using cow urine, the Uttar Pradesh government has decided to give a push to the use of cow urine in preparing medicines."

https://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/ad...

Government undertaking research to promote use of cow urine, Lok Sabha told

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-natio...

A non existent university gets prime ranking -- Reliance’s Jio Institute gets government’s Institution of Eminence status but it’s yet to be set up

https://scroll.in/article/885897/reliances-jio-university-ge...

India's March For Science: Fund Research, Not Study of Cow, Say Scientists.

https://www.news18.com/news/india/indias-march-for-science-f... I would rather have scientists doing science rather being forced on the street to defend science

Re: Why Can’t Apes Talk?

#40

Post by M_Bakhtiari »

srean wrote: post #14
amriksohata wrote: post #4

Hindus believes apes did talk at some point, or atleast one species existed that did talk. They were called Vanara. They no longer exist but this literature might point to some species that are now extinct, no fossilised evidence though would be hard to guage from fossils. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanara

Under the aegis of, Narendra "Ganesha is proof Hindus knew plastic surgery in vedic times" Modi, many self appointed spokesperson of what Hindu's believe in, have come out of the woodwork. They are the western analogue of humans riding on flying dinosaurs. Its the same phenomena. Now, we have our own Ku Klux Klan -- the cow rakshak's who are on a murderous spree with an implicit promise from the government that they…

WE WUZ ELAPHANTS!!1!

Maybe that Yakub was a foreign exchange student to IIT back in the day.

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