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How WhatsApp Destroyed a Village

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Re: How WhatsApp Destroyed a Village

#121

Post by pluma »

rishav_sharan wrote: post #74
jasonlfunk wrote: post #2

This is terrible but blaming WhatsApp is misplaced. If it wasn't WhatsApp, it would have been another service. Either it will be easy to communicate or it won't be. If it is, it can be used as a force for good or a force for evil. The real problem is so much more difficult that it's easy to try to find something you can do, block the technology, so you feel like you are doing something even if it's completely ignorin…

The real problem in this instance is not technology but a lack of education. Whatsapp is of course an enabler and an easy scapegoat. But mob lynchings have been happening in India's backwards areas for decades. People used to beat up "witches", "thieves" etc to death for long before Whatsapp was a thing. People would kill their own children because a "Godman" told them so. This will keep on happening whether they pol…

So when Indians believe propaganda and kill a group of travelers, that's a lack of education.

What is it when white Americans invade an Italian restaurant in search of child abuse or harass firefighters and grieving parents while accusing them of being "crisis actors"?

Re: How WhatsApp Destroyed a Village

#122

Post by quantummkv »

iamshs wrote: post #103

Blaming WhatsApp is easy, but it is the ideology that should be getting attacked here. I will bring in viewpoint relevant to Indian minorities here. They are under exceptional threat in India right now, and they don't have resources or means to counter the propaganda being rained on them. Current party ruling India, BJP, is beholden to a group with fascist ideologies, RSS [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]. RSS views Muslims and Christ…

I am sorry, but how is any political ideology is in any way relevant to the article? There was no political intention nor any minority/majority religion behind these lynchings.

Re: How WhatsApp Destroyed a Village

#123

Post by sterlind »

davchana wrote: post #94
sterlind wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they cut off internet access for 24 hours following the murder, and within two hours ordered the local news channel to air an admonishment about the misinformation on repeat, along with a warning for prosecution for further spreading it. the village is now a ghost-town; most of the men fled, and the women and children stay inside. elders are ashamed to mention their hometown. there are two educational efforts: the po…

WhatsApp already took some actions after getting forced by government. Now, in India, a user can not forward a message on WhatsApp to more than 5 contacts in one go. Earlier it was select as many as you wish, but now you can choose only 5 contacts.

That change only affects the latest version of the app. Only a single phone among those surveyed in the village by BuzzFeed was running the latest version. I'm not sure what Facebook can do about it technically, but the change won't be effective any time soon.

Re: How WhatsApp Destroyed a Village

#124

Post by sterlind »

Thiez wrote: post #116
sterlind wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simple: legally, treat WhatsApp groups as public message boards, and allow the local authorities to administer local WhatsApp groups the way you'd allow police to tear down signs put up on a cork-board in a public square. It's not rocket science.

Are you implying that whenever more than two people have a conversation on any chat application, the government should have the right to read along, for our own protection?

Do you live in India?

WhatsApp is produced by Facebook, an American company. It has to obey the US government. If WhatsApp wishes to operate in India, it should provide a mechanism for the Indian government to administer it.

If it doesn't, India is well within their rights to sanction them. There's no shortage of skilled tech workers in India; Facebook needs India more than India needs Facebook.

Re: How WhatsApp Destroyed a Village

#125

Post by clear_dg »

> Nobody in my village reads or watches TV. They only get updates from WhatsApp

> two burly police officers marched into the tiny newsroom of AE Vision, a local cable news channel...Write down this text, and broadcast it to your viewers.

Strange strategy from the local authorities if they want to fight this threat effectively. What happens after the 24 hours Internet ban?

In my opinion, the messages inciting violence should have been countered from the start (1 month ago?) with factual videos on the same media. If Whatsapp (or any similar app), can be used for evil, then it can also, as effectively be used for good. Why wasn't it done? Is the police really unaware of how things work in these rural areas (no literacy, no tv watching)?

Re: How WhatsApp Destroyed a Village

#126

Post by wtmt »

quantummkv wrote: post #92

The real problem here is that these services (twitter, fb, whatsapp, etc.) are designed for use by educated, urban people who know the basics of tech. And they are then marketed to uneducated people in remote areas to reach growth metric targets that Zuck and co can fling around at their next meeting. In the west and in the urban areas of SE Asia, these problems do not occur because the users are educated enough to u…

> The real problem here is that these services (twitter, fb, whatsapp, etc.) are designed for use by educated, urban people who know the basics of tech. And they are then marketed to uneducated people in remote areas to reach growth metric targets that Zuck and co can fling around at their next meeting.

I'm deeply disappointed that your comment is on the top in this discussion! As one of the "educated and urban" people, I take umbrage at this completely ridiculous and nonsensical statement. The fact that you can even make such a statement as an "educated and urban" person says a lot about the pathetic thinking in urban circles. FWIW, I have seen many so called "educated and urban" people also falling for various WhatsApp scams and fake news. While knowledge of technology may be poorer among uneducated people "in remote areas", it's not unique to them alone. You'd know that urban dwellers aren't immune by any means to these things if you had followed the news on lynchings and other mob attacks in cities.

Before you start arguing further, are you even aware how many urban people fall for all the sensational and fake debates on TV that are just meant to get ratings up, create controversies and tensions? Where is your (or anyone's) focus or acknowledgment on those?

Re: How WhatsApp Destroyed a Village

#127

Post by Thiez »

sterlind wrote: post #124
Thiez wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you implying that whenever more than two people have a conversation on any chat application, the government should have the right to read along, for our own protection?

Do you live in India? WhatsApp is produced by Facebook, an American company. It has to obey the US government. If WhatsApp wishes to operate in India, it should provide a mechanism for the Indian government to administer it. If it doesn't, India is well within their rights to sanction them. There's no shortage of skilled tech workers in India; Facebook needs India more than India needs Facebook.

I do not. I don't live in the US either. Is that relevant?

I never suggested that WhatsApp doesn't have to obey the law in the countries it wishes to operate in. But it seems very strange to me that a discussion about the moral and ethical implications of software is now concluding with (paraphrasing you) "the solution is simple: whenever 3 people communicate online, they should be subject to government surveillance". Really? The developers of WhatsApp should have foreseen that people unaccustomed to the internet might kill people when sharing hoax videos, but you don't foresee any possible negative consequences to your proposed "simple" solution?

I think the cure you propose is worse than the disease, but if that is what India really wants then by all means let them pass a law to make it so. In that case I hope WhatsApp will create a separate app for India, because I wouldn't want to get into a group conversation with an Indian by accident.

Apart from that, I don't think your solution is as simple as you claim it to be. When people from different parts of India are in a group-chat, who is the local authority? What happens when some or all participants in a group chat move to a different place? If a foreigner visits India for one (minute/hour/day/week/month/year/decade), when do the local authorities get the right to enter all their group chats? Will they leave those chats when nobody remaining in the group chat is in India? Would this law apply to Indians abroad?

Re: How WhatsApp Destroyed a Village

#128

Post by wtmt »

WhatsApp didn't destroy a village. People did, like they have always done when they've believed some random threat to be true, without checking the facts or doing some investigation. All that technology, be it WhatsApp or any other platform, has done is made it easier and quicker for such rumors to spread.

What's required is a government initiative like on the lines of this educational video in this article. [1] There's no point trying to control WhatsApp or block it. If not WhatsApp, something else will take its place, and it'd be like an endless game of whack-a-mole. Hope the government focuses on awareness initiatives more than anything else. In India, we don't need further censorship, Internet shutdowns and such. We have too much of those already. (I know this statement will offend many people, but please examine facts first, starting with a search online)

[1]: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/e28058d5-13d9-4752-98a1-d8bba84...

Re: How WhatsApp Destroyed a Village

#129

Post by mijamo »

solveit wrote: post #45
gooddelta wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speed and reach, my friend. Lynchings happened in the US a while ago, but they weren't a universal phenomenon. A platform with the speed and reach of WhatsApp makes disinformation more potent. Nowhere in my post did I suggest human beings shouldn't be allowed to freely communicate – what I'm suggesting is that maybe we haven't built the right tools to enable that safely , and instead, we're exacerbating the "broken h…

By that logic we should ban megaphones as well. You know what? Just ban shouting until people build the right tools to enable that safely .

Well if you start using a megaphone to encourage killing people you will have troubles in a few minutes. With whatsapp... Not that much. Whatsapp is probably the first medium of communication that is harf to monitor in many places. It is much safer to encourage hatred and violence there because you don't need physical interaction, it scales a lot and authorities cannot intercept it.

Re: How WhatsApp Destroyed a Village

#130

Post by mijamo »

sooheon wrote: post #89
gooddelta wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Printing creates a barrier to entry. You have to have enough conviction in your idea, and the determination to actually write the statement, lay it out, and print and distribute it. You don't just type "oh shit lxrbst should be hanged lmao," hit send, and reach 100 people. You're basically describing why journalism is important, and still has an important place in our society.

Journalism is important, but not to the exclusion of other forms of communication. If your thrust is that barriers to entry for communication is good because it puts mass comm. powers in the hands of the few(er), I cannot agree.

Ironic to post such a comment in a platform that puts a high barrier for communication through moderation and guidelines.
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