Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How WhatsApp Destroyed a Village

buzzfeednews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 158 posts

Re: How WhatsApp Destroyed a Village

#91

Post by sterlind »

projektir wrote: post #69
sterlind wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, rural villages with low literacy rates aren't able to handle sharing rumors at the speed of light. This is precisely the discussion we're having! Suddenly, high-speed internet is affordable even in places without reliable power. They can't spot fake news. They're unprepared for WhatsApp - do you blame them?

I'm not buying it, these people lynched somebody, this isn't about a lack of literacy. It's about being used to using violence as a way to solve problems.

The article mentioned that lynchings were unheard of in Rainpada prior to the introduction of WhatsApp and the spread of misinformation. Please cite your source for them "being used to using violence."

Re: How WhatsApp Destroyed a Village

#92

Post by quantummkv »

The real problem here is that these services (twitter, fb, whatsapp, etc.) are designed for use by educated, urban people who know the basics of tech. And they are then marketed to uneducated people in remote areas to reach growth metric targets that Zuck and co can fling around at their next meeting.

In the west and in the urban areas of SE Asia, these problems do not occur because the users are educated enough to understand how this all works and are less likely to fall for all these fake news and child kidnapping videos.

Now, in remote villages, the people are not educated in technology. People who don't have access to electricity and TV suddenly find themselves using Social Media. These people don't have an idea that videos and images can be faked using Photoshop and such. So they take these at face value.

In real world communications, people have developed a system of verification and trust. When someone speaks about such things, you generally ask questions like the source for the information. Then you decide whether it is a source that you trust.

Whatsapp has no such system to find and verify the source of information. There is no trust model. The basic assumption is that the person in your trust zone is sending you this information.

Combine this with the fact that the videos hit the base instincts of humanity (safety, especially of your children) and you have a recipe for disaster.

Re: How WhatsApp Destroyed a Village

#94

Post by davchana »

sterlind wrote: post #88
user111233 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the government thinks the locals are unable to handle the internet then it should either educate them or restrict the usage.

they cut off internet access for 24 hours following the murder, and within two hours ordered the local news channel to air an admonishment about the misinformation on repeat, along with a warning for prosecution for further spreading it. the village is now a ghost-town; most of the men fled, and the women and children stay inside. elders are ashamed to mention their hometown. there are two educational efforts: the po…

WhatsApp already took some actions after getting forced by government. Now, in India, a user can not forward a message on WhatsApp to more than 5 contacts in one go. Earlier it was select as many as you wish, but now you can choose only 5 contacts.

Re: How WhatsApp Destroyed a Village

#95

Post by Tempest1981 »

closeparen wrote: post #33
gooddelta wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the entire problem with this industry – we make the assumption that someone less ethical than us will come along and build the shitty product anyway, and use that as justification to do something we likely shouldn't. Blaming WhatsApp is misplaced, in some sense – the blame lies with startup culture, and with each of us that choose to make that excuse.

"The shitty product" is text chat. We "likely shouldn't" build text chat? Startup culture is morally defective because it built text chat, and we share in the moral capability by "making excuses" for text chat?

The article mentions forwarded hoax videos:

“each said they’d done so after watching shocking videos on WhatsApp warning of outsiders abducting children.”

Re: How WhatsApp Destroyed a Village

#96

Post by sterlind »

sooheon wrote: post #90
sterlind wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, rural villages with low literacy rates aren't able to handle sharing rumors at the speed of light. This is precisely the discussion we're having! Suddenly, high-speed internet is affordable even in places without reliable power. They can't spot fake news. They're unprepared for WhatsApp - do you blame them?

A: open communication and information never reaches them, we segregate them according to some prime directive, and they go on lynching each other and being backwards for all eternity until they arrive at internet #2 through convergent evolution. B: open communication and information reach them, some use it for productive ends and some use it to mobilize lynchings, after 1~2 generations of adjustment, education, adapt…

Simple: legally, treat WhatsApp groups as public message boards, and allow the local authorities to administer local WhatsApp groups the way you'd allow police to tear down signs put up on a cork-board in a public square.

It's not rocket science.

Re: How WhatsApp Destroyed a Village

#97

Post by Tempest1981 »

cwyers wrote: post #13
gooddelta wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, definitely no advertising, particularly overseas, that could have contributed to WhatsApp's growth. No features added like large groups that could be used to spread disinformation. WhatsApp chats are used to influence advertising, so that goes out the window. This happened because WhatsApp provided the means for it to happen – and you can speculate all day long about whether some other app would have made it po…

Okay, but what about WhatsApp made this possible that wouldn't have been possible with plain old SMS/MMS? (Or even just the telephone? I guess no video over the telephone, but rumors and lies can certainly spread that way.) It's not like Facebook, where there's some kind of algorithmic curation. This is entirely peer-to-peer content distribution.

Sounds like the videos were very shocking and quickly forwarded - instigating a mob mentality:

“each said they’d done so after watching shocking videos on WhatsApp warning of outsiders abducting children.”

Re: How WhatsApp Destroyed a Village

#98

Post by Tempest1981 »

sooheon wrote: post #90
sterlind wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, rural villages with low literacy rates aren't able to handle sharing rumors at the speed of light. This is precisely the discussion we're having! Suddenly, high-speed internet is affordable even in places without reliable power. They can't spot fake news. They're unprepared for WhatsApp - do you blame them?

A: open communication and information never reaches them, we segregate them according to some prime directive, and they go on lynching each other and being backwards for all eternity until they arrive at internet #2 through convergent evolution. B: open communication and information reach them, some use it for productive ends and some use it to mobilize lynchings, after 1~2 generations of adjustment, education, adapt…

The article mentions how:

“The next day, WhatsApp replied to the ministry, saying that it was “horrified by these terrible acts of violence,” but arguing that an effective solution to misinformation would require help from the government. WhatsApp pushed a few changes to the app, adding “forwarded” labels to re-sent messages, and limiting the number of people or groups a user could forward messages to in India to five.”

Re: How WhatsApp Destroyed a Village

#99

Post by rapnie »

rishav_sharan wrote: post #74
jasonlfunk wrote: post #2

This is terrible but blaming WhatsApp is misplaced. If it wasn't WhatsApp, it would have been another service. Either it will be easy to communicate or it won't be. If it is, it can be used as a force for good or a force for evil. The real problem is so much more difficult that it's easy to try to find something you can do, block the technology, so you feel like you are doing something even if it's completely ignorin…

The real problem in this instance is not technology but a lack of education. Whatsapp is of course an enabler and an easy scapegoat. But mob lynchings have been happening in India's backwards areas for decades. People used to beat up "witches", "thieves" etc to death for long before Whatsapp was a thing. People would kill their own children because a "Godman" told them so. This will keep on happening whether they pol…

> The real problem in this instance is not technology but a lack of education.

But WA could certainly help with this education, maybe in the same sense it educates you that a conversation is E2E encrypted. The app could easily provide a clear warning and an additional page with concrete examples of abuse/misuse and dangers.

Re: How WhatsApp Destroyed a Village

#100

Post by toomanybeersies »

projektir wrote: post #71

I'm pretty sure things like this happened in villages waaaay before WA came about. This is more old world than new word. WA is a very simple application that doesn't really, in itself, encourage anything specific.

I would think that it's greater access to mobile phones and mass communication than Whatsapp itself that's the problem.

Intrinsically, the same thing could happen with SMS.

Post reply on HN