'Mindful people' feel less pain • Hacker News Board

Re: 'Mindful people' feel less pain

#71

Post by mcculley » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 9:29 PM UTC

kalid wrote: post #8

nickthemagicman wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious what the difference is? Suffering is your reaction to the pain? Like if you're stoic you acknowledge the pain but continue on with out suffering?

Here’s the best analogy I’ve heard. Imagine you wake up and your back is sore. Getting out of bed is a struggle, everything aches and you must move slowly. Without other knowledge, you may get worried, anxious, feel distressed. If you remember you had a workout yesterday, you may actually enjoy the feeling. It reminds you of the effort you put in, the future progress you’ll make as muscles are repaired. The physical…

I like that example, but it breaks down. I have experienced plenty of pain in the muscles of my back in the form of both delayed onset muscle soreness that follows a good workout and the spasms of pain associated with a torn muscle. The former is pleasant. The latter is not.

Re: 'Mindful people' feel less pain

#72

Post by danharaj » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 9:29 PM UTC

projektir wrote: post #70

danharaj wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah. There's definitely pain out there that can't be studied to oblivion. Anyone so pompous hasn't experienced, for example, a cluster headache.

Yeah, I am reading all these posts saying "if you just focus on the pain, it'll stop being a problem", with most examples being "my leg is sore", and wonder how much time the people have actually spent trying to imagine high pain. Comes to mind: https://xkcd.com/883/ I wonder how much this is related to poor understanding of the badness of certain situations...

Granted I think mindful pain management is a thing, especially chronic pain which I've had forever. But I've certainly felt acute pain far beyond the ability of my higher faculties to contend with...

Re: 'Mindful people' feel less pain

#73

Post by projektir » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 9:31 PM UTC

danharaj wrote: post #72

projektir wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I am reading all these posts saying "if you just focus on the pain, it'll stop being a problem", with most examples being "my leg is sore", and wonder how much time the people have actually spent trying to imagine high pain. Comes to mind: https://xkcd.com/883/ I wonder how much this is related to poor understanding of the badness of certain situations...

Granted I think mindful pain management is a thing, especially chronic pain which I've had forever. But I've certainly felt acute pain far beyond the ability of my higher faculties to contend with...

Yeah, I won't disagree that things can be managed given certain conditions. There are definitely better and worse ways of greeting pain for the average person.

But I'd never say it as an absolute and I think that's incredibly dangerous and the "suffering is an optional thing we invent in our heads" all over this thread is making me cringe.

Re: 'Mindful people' feel less pain

#74

Post by QuadrupleA » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 9:43 PM UTC

Didn't realize that neuroscience has investigated mindfulness directly like this. Very cool. I've long found that practice useful, to focus as directly on pain as I can; it becomes manageable, even sort of interesting in a way. The alternatives, like attempting to escape via addictions / distractions, don't usually turn out well.

Re: 'Mindful people' feel less pain

#75

Post by smileysteve » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 9:45 PM UTC

ollerac wrote: post #28

nickthemagicman wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious what the difference is? Suffering is your reaction to the pain? Like if you're stoic you acknowledge the pain but continue on with out suffering?

Think of it this way: Pain: My head hurts. This sucks. Suffering: My head hurts. It's not going away. Maybe this means something is wrong with me. Maybe it means I have some kind of disease or disorder. What if there's something wrong with my brain, like a brain tumor or a blood clot? What if I suddenly die next week? etc. etc.

And even,

Pain: My head hurts, but that's not going to stop me from having an awesome day.

Suffering: I have a headache, this sucks, let me avoid things that might be fun even with a headache.

Perhaps a better example is the stoicism, Steve Prefontaine famously won an Olympic qualifier with the stitches on his toe ripping; "Yes, my toe hurts, but I want to win, I can fix my toe after I finish."

Re: 'Mindful people' feel less pain

#76

Post by arkanciscan » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 9:56 PM UTC

Why is their definition of "mindful" (being aware of the present moment without too much emotional reaction or judgment) different from the dictionary (conscious or aware of something)? Is it because this article is hogwash?

Re: 'Mindful people' feel less pain

#77

Post by miguelmota » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 10:03 PM UTC

Unhappiness comes from reality not meeting expectations. Have no expectations and always be happy. Worrying about events outside of your control is pointless. Everyone needs some stoicism in their lives. Indifference is a power

Re: 'Mindful people' feel less pain

#78

Post by ironmagma » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 10:07 PM UTC

miguelmota wrote: post #77

Unhappiness comes from reality not meeting expectations. Have no expectations and always be happy. Worrying about events outside of your control is pointless. Everyone needs some stoicism in their lives. Indifference is a power

That's easy to say, and very difficult for people in certain circumstances. With chronic illness and chronic pain, life can be very, very unbearable. We do have a built-in expectation of being able to, for instance, exist without being brought back to the world of pain every 3-5 minutes at random intervals. Not every expectation is willed into existence.

Re: 'Mindful people' feel less pain

#79

Post by JeffreyKaine » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 10:14 PM UTC

projektir wrote: post #64

cammil wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suffering is a form of indulgence. The pain can exist and you can be fully aware of it, but if you don't indulge in it there will be no suffering. It just is. One of the components of this is desire for an alternative. This combined with reobservation of the pain leads to a cycle (indulgence) of the mind - the essence of suffering.

How does this make any sense in the concept of animals who are suffering because they're hurt, hungry, etc. What are they indulging in?

They might not have the ability to ignore things quite as well as a human can, but the same concept applies. Many dogs will ignore their own pain to help another in need. Not indulging in pain takes a discipline of mind that most animals are incapable of in most situations.

Re: 'Mindful people' feel less pain

#80

Post by JeffreyKaine » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 10:17 PM UTC

projektir wrote: post #60

lalos wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suffering is a conscious decision, pain is triggered by an outside stimuli. Just like you can feel mad without punching a wall. Punching a wall would be an extreme example of somebody with zero self-control that reacts rather than act. It's normal to have pain or feel mad, it's not 'mindful' to react with the first impulse you get.

> Suffering is a conscious decision Do you think your cat won't suffer is you stop feeding it? Do you think it's making a conscious decision to suffer if it's hungry?

it might be more accurate to describe suffering as an optional subconscious process. You suffer by default, but you can choose to not suffer with the right amount of mindfulness. As for the cat, again, the cat might not have the mental fortitude to set aside the suffering.