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'Mindful people' feel less pain

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Re: 'Mindful people' feel less pain

#61

Post by codr4 »

amelius wrote: post #33
ryandrake wrote: post #17

> "Mindfulness is related to being aware of the present moment without too much emotional reaction or judgment," said the study's lead author, Fadel Zeidan I've always thought of the word "mindfulness" as one of those vague, new-age nonsense terms, like "psionic body energy" and "ethereal consciousness". Even given the above quoted definition, I still have no idea what it means. Does anyone know what is an example of…

It is about letting go of your thoughts, and thus "mindlessness" would be a better term ;)

Loosing your mind is not as bad as it sounds.

My Yoga teacher used to remind that a mind full of crap is not very useful.

It also puts the focus on letting go, which is key to making progress.

Re: 'Mindful people' feel less pain

#62

Post by lez »

philwelch wrote: post #49
HiroshiSan wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that true if your being tortured by someone other than yourself? I've seen the picture of the monk who set himself on fire while meditating in protest. I wonder if suffering is only optional if you inflict it on yourself.

People do tend to have an easier time enduring things they inflict on themselves than things inflicted on them by others, but perhaps you can trick this mechanism by accepting what is inflicted onto you by others.

Pain is feeding from fear, which can explain these:

* you feel less pain if you cause it for yourself (you've already conquered fear)

* mindfulness eases pain because of more knowledge / seeing, less fear

Re: 'Mindful people' feel less pain

#63

Post by projektir »

HiroshiSan wrote: post #12
mcculley wrote: post #5

Mindfulness meditation taught me something that Haruki Murakami describes well about running: “Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.”

Is that true if your being tortured by someone other than yourself? I've seen the picture of the monk who set himself on fire while meditating in protest. I wonder if suffering is only optional if you inflict it on yourself.

At the very least, you could damage someone's brain faculties to the point that they can no longer philosophize their way out of suffering. And that is likely unnecessary, some drugs should suffice.

"Suffering is optional" is a concept that dies immediately if you apply even a tiny amount of creativity to the question. It also fails if applied to animals.

It's really only available to people in a specific range of situations, and often it's stated not because it's actually true, but because it makes people feel powerful in situations where they're rather powerless. Which is mostly the point of stoicism anyway, as it is a philosophy developed during a time when people felt that they couldn't change anything about the world.

Of course, this means it's a poor philosophy to follow if your interest is in things improving, and not in just you personally not caring about them, something that many people already accomplish all too well...

Re: 'Mindful people' feel less pain

#64

Post by projektir »

cammil wrote: post #9
nickthemagicman wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious what the difference is? Suffering is your reaction to the pain? Like if you're stoic you acknowledge the pain but continue on with out suffering?

Suffering is a form of indulgence. The pain can exist and you can be fully aware of it, but if you don't indulge in it there will be no suffering. It just is. One of the components of this is desire for an alternative. This combined with reobservation of the pain leads to a cycle (indulgence) of the mind - the essence of suffering.

How does this make any sense in the concept of animals who are suffering because they're hurt, hungry, etc. What are they indulging in?

Re: 'Mindful people' feel less pain

#65

Post by mcculley »

dang wrote: post #40
mcculley wrote: post #5

Mindfulness meditation taught me something that Haruki Murakami describes well about running: “Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.”

That's a well-known Buddhist proverb but I don't know what the textual source is, or if there is one. This is the sort of thing one can email to the Quote Investigator. Maybe I will.

In his book "What I Talk About When I Talk About Running", Murakami does not claim it as his own. I do think it captures both running and meditation well.

Re: 'Mindful people' feel less pain

#66

Post by codr4 »

I've done more Yoga than most and suffered from chronic pain after a climbing accident for a long time. The reaction to pain makes a big difference, and it's very difficult to react in a sane way when your ego is left running the show while you're out time traveling.

Re: 'Mindful people' feel less pain

#67

Post by wayne_skylar »

ryandrake wrote: post #17

> "Mindfulness is related to being aware of the present moment without too much emotional reaction or judgment," said the study's lead author, Fadel Zeidan I've always thought of the word "mindfulness" as one of those vague, new-age nonsense terms, like "psionic body energy" and "ethereal consciousness". Even given the above quoted definition, I still have no idea what it means. Does anyone know what is an example of…

I think we all experience moments of mindfulness from time to time but aren't aware of what it is or that it can be cultivated. At least I always have.

I began to experience it as a kid playing out in the woods alone. Sometimes I'd take a break and lie down on the ground and enjoy the breeze in the trees and all of the sensations that go with it.

Another example would be on a beach vacation when I'll just have a cup of coffee and watch the ocean. You're just focused on the present moment and not being distracted by a million other things. Obviously cellphones take you out of this state of mind.

Mindfulness is basically focusing on what is going on in the current moment (your senses, your surroundings, etc) as opposed to things that are not immediately there in front of you. This may seem boring at first but when you break through the boredom you sort of find yourself thinking in the way many of us haven't since we were kids. It has a bit of a nostalgic feeling to me as it reminds me of how when I was a kid I wasn't thinking constantly about things I need to do.

Obviously it's not a good idea to forget your adult obligations completely but letting them go for a moment here and there is a good thing since it can help you gain perspective.

Re: 'Mindful people' feel less pain

#68

Post by l_t »

HiroshiSan wrote: post #12
mcculley wrote: post #5

Mindfulness meditation taught me something that Haruki Murakami describes well about running: “Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.”

Is that true if your being tortured by someone other than yourself? I've seen the picture of the monk who set himself on fire while meditating in protest. I wonder if suffering is only optional if you inflict it on yourself.

For an interesting perspective on this topic, I'd recommend "Man's Search for Meaning", by Victor Frankl.

Frankl was a Jewish psychiatrist who survived Auschwitz, and one of his points (as I understand it) is that humans deeply desire to know that their life is meaningful, and even if another person is torturing you, you can find meaning by maintaining your human dignity in the face of the evil around you.

The stories in the book are heartbreaking, but there is a clear sense that it's possible to find something even when it seems like there's nothing. I guess he would say: perhaps you can't always find peace, but you can find meaning.

Re: 'Mindful people' feel less pain

#69

Post by mcculley »

HiroshiSan wrote: post #12
mcculley wrote: post #5

Mindfulness meditation taught me something that Haruki Murakami describes well about running: “Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.”

Is that true if your being tortured by someone other than yourself? I've seen the picture of the monk who set himself on fire while meditating in protest. I wonder if suffering is only optional if you inflict it on yourself.

I can only speak to my experience. Mindfulness meditation gave me more capability to decouple pain from suffering, regardless of how the pain is inflicted. Your mileage may vary.

Re: 'Mindful people' feel less pain

#70

Post by projektir »

danharaj wrote: post #58
nabla9 wrote: post #7

I think Marvin Minsky had it right in his book The Emotion Machine (2006): From Chapter III. From Pain to Suffering >Why does the sensation called pain sometimes lead to what we call suffering? How could such a simple event distort all your other thoughts so much? This chapter proposes a theory of this: if a pain is intense and persistent enough, it will stir up a certain set of resources, and then these, in turn, ar…

Hah. There's definitely pain out there that can't be studied to oblivion. Anyone so pompous hasn't experienced, for example, a cluster headache.

Yeah, I am reading all these posts saying "if you just focus on the pain, it'll stop being a problem", with most examples being "my leg is sore", and wonder how much time the people have actually spent trying to imagine high pain.

Comes to mind: https://xkcd.com/883/

I wonder how much this is related to poor understanding of the badness of certain situations...

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