EU to move ahead with cultural quotas for streaming services • Hacker News Board

Re: EU to move ahead with cultural quotas for streaming services

#91

Post by mariushn » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 2:35 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #41

comboy wrote: post #3

> So the move — which will probably draw loud and hair-raising screams from U.S. commentators — is, nonetheless, A Good Thing. I'm in EU. A Good Thing is letting me watch whatever the fuck I want. It's a real dystopia if the state decides which movies you should or shouldn't watch.

I'm also in EU. An Even Better Thing is to not have whole generations conditioned from childhood (by a system that distributes predominantly Hollywood movies for them to watch), to believe that those are "whatever the fuck" they actually want as free agents to watch. An Even Better Thing is to introduce people to multiple cinematic cultures (and multiple cultures in general), not just the global monoculture that push…

We're working on a project to let people discover multiple cultures/areas besides "bestsellers", but with books.

May I ask you a few quick questions on how you see that happening? There's no email in your profile, mine is marius@booxia.com

Appreciate your thoughts!

Re: EU to move ahead with cultural quotas for streaming services

#92

Post by Fnoord » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 2:36 PM UTC

phyller wrote: post #7

> The proposals will require that streaming services give over at least 30% of their on-demand catalogues to original productions made in each EU country where a service is provided (individual EU Member States could choose to set the content bar even higher, at 40%) 30% for each country seems really high to me. As usual for regulation, there will likely be high unintended consequences. While in the US and elsewhere…

Its not as if Netflix is the creme de la creme of cinema. Netflix already sucks outside the US. Outside the US, there's far less content, and there is either way a lot of filler content anyway.

What is going to happen is that Netflix will get the rights to stream (hopefully quality) local movies and series. That's gonna differ per country in EU. For example, some movies get broadcasted once or twice on public TV and that's it. Youth however mainly or even only stream. So they can get to see the movies they paid for (via tax) but via Netflix now, and Netflix can acquire them [reasonably] cheap. Everyone wins.

Right now, there's a bunch of quality EU series on Netflix already such as Casa De Papel and Dark.

Re: EU to move ahead with cultural quotas for streaming services

#93

Post by AllegedAlec » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 2:37 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #41

comboy wrote: post #3

> So the move — which will probably draw loud and hair-raising screams from U.S. commentators — is, nonetheless, A Good Thing. I'm in EU. A Good Thing is letting me watch whatever the fuck I want. It's a real dystopia if the state decides which movies you should or shouldn't watch.

I'm also in EU. An Even Better Thing is to not have whole generations conditioned from childhood (by a system that distributes predominantly Hollywood movies for them to watch), to believe that those are "whatever the fuck" they actually want as free agents to watch. An Even Better Thing is to introduce people to multiple cinematic cultures (and multiple cultures in general), not just the global monoculture that push…

> An Even Better Thing is to introduce people to multiple cinematic cultures (and multiple cultures in general), not just the global monoculture that pushes the cultural and political agendas of the country that makes it, and expresses its own preoccupation and worldview as if the rest 95% of the world doesn't matter.

An Even Worse Thing is when we allow a super-governmental organisation to dictate what they deem to be acceptable level of non-culture to be forced upon us.

Yeah, globalism sucks, and preserving your own culture is generally a good thing, especially in a day and age where Americana is encroaching so heavily on every aspect of life. But this is not the way to do it.

> Especially since there are tens of different cultures and perspectives within the EU to represent.

These can be added, or fail to be added, to streaming services, on their own merit. Have you ever seen films from your own country? I, as a Dutchman have, and I can say that most of them suck and there's a very good reason you don't see them on stuff like Netflix.

Re: EU to move ahead with cultural quotas for streaming services

#94

Post by coldtea » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 2:40 PM UTC

comboy wrote: post #84

coldtea wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also in EU. An Even Better Thing is to not have whole generations conditioned from childhood (by a system that distributes predominantly Hollywood movies for them to watch), to believe that those are "whatever the fuck" they actually want as free agents to watch. An Even Better Thing is to introduce people to multiple cinematic cultures (and multiple cultures in general), not just the global monoculture that push…

> conditioned from childhood That's parents job. Just as it is important that you give healthy food to your children and don't just let them eat fast food even if they would prefer it, same goes for entertainment. But the state shouldn't set a limit on burgers per month for you.

>That's parents job

Kids aren't solely cultivated (not sure if that's the best term) by their parents (unless in Deliverance style situations).

They are also cultivated (and even more so) by school, tv, parents friends, their friends, the internet, social media, advertisement, society at large, and so on.

>But the state shouldn't set a limit on burgers per month for you.

No, unless I vote for it to do so. As a European whose not afraid of the term "social democracy" I don't believe the state is necessarily some "other", an "enemy", etc.

It can be that but it can also be a mediator for things people want in aggregate and vote to make sure they happen.

So, if we wish we had less fast food, we can very much vote to e.g. heavily tax those burger joints. Especially when they knowingly peddle poison for our health...

In any case it should mandate that other foods are also made available at the school canteen. Which is what it does here.

Re: EU to move ahead with cultural quotas for streaming services

#95

Post by coldtea » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 2:43 PM UTC

mariushn wrote: post #91

coldtea wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also in EU. An Even Better Thing is to not have whole generations conditioned from childhood (by a system that distributes predominantly Hollywood movies for them to watch), to believe that those are "whatever the fuck" they actually want as free agents to watch. An Even Better Thing is to introduce people to multiple cinematic cultures (and multiple cultures in general), not just the global monoculture that push…

We're working on a project to let people discover multiple cultures/areas besides "bestsellers", but with books. May I ask you a few quick questions on how you see that happening? There's no email in your profile, mine is marius@booxia.com Appreciate your thoughts!

>May I ask you a few quick questions on how you see that happening?

Sure, fire away here too, I'll try to answer as best as I think it.

(Also in what sense do you mean "how I see that happening"? Technically? Legally? UI-wise?)

Re: EU to move ahead with cultural quotas for streaming services

#96

Post by evertheylen » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 2:48 PM UTC

I live in Belgium and was surprised to find out how regulated our media is. However, it is mostly for linear media (i.e. a single continous stream like traditional TV channels). The law is somewhat vague, requiring that "the largest portion of broadcast time be dedicated to European productions".

Rules for nonlinear media like Netflix basically state that they have to promote insofar possible European productions, but without hard numbers. I can imagine that these vague rules are blatantly ignored by modern streaming providers, so at least in Belgium you could see this as simply a more specific wording of already existing rules.

(I'm not entirely sure how I feel about this btw, I'm just providing some context for those interested.)

Re: EU to move ahead with cultural quotas for streaming services

#97

Post by mariushn » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 2:52 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #95

mariushn wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're working on a project to let people discover multiple cultures/areas besides "bestsellers", but with books. May I ask you a few quick questions on how you see that happening? There's no email in your profile, mine is marius@booxia.com Appreciate your thoughts!

> May I ask you a few quick questions on how you see that happening? Sure, fire away here too, I'll try to answer as best as I think it. (Also in what sense do you mean "how I see that happening"? Technically? Legally? UI-wise?)

How do you see that happening, experience wise.

Say one is in a bubble of Hollywood action/romance movies, or NY Times bestsellers. When this person hears about something different from somebody else, he thinks Meh. What/how would they need to be introduced to a new movie/book that is outside their culture, but several people thought it was good?

Any other thoughts? Thanks :)

Re: EU to move ahead with cultural quotas for streaming services

#98

Post by seszett » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 2:55 PM UTC

julesie wrote: post #64

wukerplank wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 30% of movies in Indiana need to be created in Indiana Seems like the media production is pretty centralized in the US. It's hard to compare with Europe, where most nations have different languages, their own TV stations (producing their own content) and their own funds to support productions of movies. It would be a shame if these biotopes of media production would get dried out because of US monopolies. At least…

But the size of EU member states varies drastically. Germany is home to 83,000,000 people, Malta just over 440,000. Is the EU suggesting that Malta's population should only be able to stream content 2x the volume of its domestic content output? And that's assuming the likes of Netflix was able to hoover up all of that domestic output which seems untenable.

For reference, IMDB shows 297 movies from Malta, and Netflix' catalogue in Malta offers 716 movies.

So even assuming the current catalogue is completely devoid of Maltese movies, there is still some margin available to fulfil the strictest requirements. Although I think the actual requirements is to include 30% movies from the EU.

Re: EU to move ahead with cultural quotas for streaming services

#99

Post by maeln » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 2:57 PM UTC

AllegedAlec wrote: post #93

coldtea wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also in EU. An Even Better Thing is to not have whole generations conditioned from childhood (by a system that distributes predominantly Hollywood movies for them to watch), to believe that those are "whatever the fuck" they actually want as free agents to watch. An Even Better Thing is to introduce people to multiple cinematic cultures (and multiple cultures in general), not just the global monoculture that push…

> An Even Better Thing is to introduce people to multiple cinematic cultures (and multiple cultures in general), not just the global monoculture that pushes the cultural and political agendas of the country that makes it, and expresses its own preoccupation and worldview as if the rest 95% of the world doesn't matter. An Even Worse Thing is when we allow a super-governmental organisation to dictate what they deem to…

> Have you ever seen films from your own country? I, as a Dutchman have, and I can say that most of them suck and there's a very good reason you don't see them on stuff like Netflix.

This also seems like a recursive problem. US/Hollywood have huge marketing power, thanks to this, they can ensure that the movie they produce should make a decent profit, they can then invest more money to make better production.

On the other end, local european production don't have that marketing power, most "local" movie will fly under the radar, whatever they quality might be. They sometime make it to the box office in their country but there is just not enough interest to adapt it for other country. Due to this, it's also normal that local production tend to have less production quality.

But if you look, a lot of actor, director, etc, involved in hollywood production come from other countries. So there is talent everywhere in the world, it's mostly a money problem.

If this protectionism result in more diversity in movies, it might be a good thing.

Also, let's be honest, it shouldn't be that hard for Netflix&co to comply. They will just buy the rights to a shitload of shitty TV-movies that nobody wants and be done with it. It's already what they do in France, you would be surprised by how much crap that you never heard about is produced.

Re: EU to move ahead with cultural quotas for streaming services

#100

Post by AllegedAlec » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 3:13 PM UTC

maeln wrote: post #99

AllegedAlec wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An Even Better Thing is to introduce people to multiple cinematic cultures (and multiple cultures in general), not just the global monoculture that pushes the cultural and political agendas of the country that makes it, and expresses its own preoccupation and worldview as if the rest 95% of the world doesn't matter. An Even Worse Thing is when we allow a super-governmental organisation to dictate what they deem to…

> Have you ever seen films from your own country? I, as a Dutchman have, and I can say that most of them suck and there's a very good reason you don't see them on stuff like Netflix. This also seems like a recursive problem. US/Hollywood have huge marketing power, thanks to this, they can ensure that the movie they produce should make a decent profit, they can then invest more money to make better production. On the…

> This also seems like a recursive problem. US/Hollywood have huge marketing power, thanks to this, they can ensure that the movie they produce should make a decent profit, they can then invest more money to make better production.

No, it's a problem of target audience. If you produce films for a Dutch audience, you have two options: either appeal to a sense of Dutch pride or history, or go for something so generic that a decent swath of the population will like it; otherwise you won't have enough of an audience to make a profit. This is what they do, so Dutch films are generally about about our navy in the 16th to 18th century, about WWII, a romcom or some adaptation of a Dutch Children's book. You cannot locally produce a film about something which lies outside of the realm of interest of most Dutch people; Hollywood can, since they have a larger audience, and therefore do have the ability to target niche markets.

> On the other end, local european production don't have that marketing power, most "local" movie will fly under the radar, whatever they quality might be.

There's more than enough marketing power; you don't need to market these films outside the country they're produced in, so you can keep the marketing campaign fairly lean and targeted.

> Also, let's be honest, it shouldn't be that hard for Netflix&co to comply.

My stance is not on how hard it is or is not to comply, it's about the audacity of governments to demand this in the first place.