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Google Optimize now free for everyone

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Re: Google Optimize now free for everyone

#31
post #20

Does anyone have a rule of thumb on when A/B testing becomes important for startups? We have a few thousand visitors a month and are starting to convert, but my guess is A/B testing language and buttons would be premature optimization for us. Just curious at what point that's no longer the case.

Some pretty easy rules of thumb, assuming you have a decent grasp on your economics. Look at it as a "low hanging fruit" optimization problem -- do you put resources into running a test (+ opportunity cost for lost sales), or into something else?

Suppose you have 10k monthly sessions with a 0.5% conversion rate (50 conversions). How many more customers would you need in order to prioritize running a test? If 55 conversions in a given month means you crush important KPIs, then that's probably worth testing -- you just need a 10% lift.*

Also keep in mind that running A/B tests (1 control, 1 treatment) is suboptimal. That tests, "does this beat what I have now?" The more important question is "what is my best option?".

OTOH, if other things like messaging and product are stable, you can test a smaller traffic site by leaving it running longer.

My rough estimate is 100 conversion events in the time the test runs. So if I have 100 conversion events in 1 month, it may make sense to run a 2-3 option + 1 control test for 1 month.

(You can also test much larger things than buttons. For startups, I like to suggest trying out positioning or value statements and seeing how visitors respond!)

* however, it'll take a long time for you to reach statistical confidence for a 10% lift in rate, with only 50 conversion events across all tests.

Re: Google Optimize now free for everyone

#32
post #20

Does anyone have a rule of thumb on when A/B testing becomes important for startups? We have a few thousand visitors a month and are starting to convert, but my guess is A/B testing language and buttons would be premature optimization for us. Just curious at what point that's no longer the case.

The last heavily traffic site I worked on wouldn't perform an A/B test unless they could experiment with tens of thousands of daily active users. The experiments would last 2-3 weeks to gain statistical significance. A page usually had a 70/30 control experiment split.

The challenge is gaining statistically significant data. I think it is easier for an early stage customer to talk to their customers versus go through the time of a split test.

Re: Google Optimize now free for everyone

#33
post #20

Does anyone have a rule of thumb on when A/B testing becomes important for startups? We have a few thousand visitors a month and are starting to convert, but my guess is A/B testing language and buttons would be premature optimization for us. Just curious at what point that's no longer the case.

In order to be useful, you probably want to see AB tests reaching a conclusion in under 30 days. I'd say for a conversion rate goal, this is going to be when you have around 100k visitors a month. There are a few variables to consider - What goal would you like to AB test? Conversion rate is an end-of-funnel goal that needs a lot of traffic, you can use upper funnel goals like product views, add to bag etc to get qui…

Google Optimize offers MAB testing, which is awesome. Personally, I don't see it as a "when do results become reliable" problem -- it's a "what is the cost of a false positive, false negative, or 'do nothing' decision?"

Re: Google Optimize now free for everyone

#34

"Optimizing" UI for session length and clicks is the same thing as finding the local maxima of bad, right?

The effects of this are easiest to see with online recipes; the highest ranking recipes are all thousand word ramblings with a recipe tacked on at the end. Google sees you spent more time on the site (i.e. wasted scrolling) and thinks you were more 'engaged.'

I noticed this too and made a plugin that saves me a lot of time; it copies the recipe into a container and puts it in a modal at the top of the page with original formatting intact.

Chrome extension: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/recipe-filter/ahlc...

Source: https://github.com/sean-public/RecipeFilter

Video demo & explanation: https://youtu.be/3Xq1p10f3v4

Re: Google Optimize now free for everyone

#35
post #20

Does anyone have a rule of thumb on when A/B testing becomes important for startups? We have a few thousand visitors a month and are starting to convert, but my guess is A/B testing language and buttons would be premature optimization for us. Just curious at what point that's no longer the case.

At least thinking about it is important NOW, regardless of what stage your startup is. It can be extremely difficult to try to slot a 3rd party A/B testing solution into your product (or really hard to roll your own) if your infra doesn't support it from the start. Also, hire a data scientist! (Disclaimers: I am not a data scientist, I just think everyone needs one! I have worked on an experimentation system at $BIG_COMPANY.)

I'd suggest thinking about the following BEFORE YOU RUN A SINGLE A/B TEST:

1) Key Metrics: Define these. They are the general, "I don't care what your experiment is about, these numbers are important." Every experiment you run should automatically track these metrics. You should also give the ability to define custom metrics, since an experiment that changes some random button color probably wants to look at how many people clicked the button, which is almost definitely NOT a key metric.

2) Logging Infrastructure: Make sure that you have a easy-to-use, reliable data pipeline set up for logging and processing events. Bad logging == bad experiment results. Also consider streaming vs batch processing for updating experiment results.

3) Population Management: How do your experiments segment users? Are variants calculated in realtime? Batched with some SLA for lag? Are they sticky?

4) Mutual Exclusion: People running experiments often want "their" users excluded from other experiments.

5) Guardrails: Do your experiments automatically shut off if there is a catastrophic decline in one or more key metrics? What safety measures do you have around determining if an experiment is safe/valid? How do you handle cleaning up data when there's a problem? What sorts of actions invalidate an experiement's existing results? Does your entire site break if your A/B Testing service is down for whatever reason?

6) Cleanup/Ownership: Experiments don't run forever (at least they shouldn't!). Cleaning up old features, populations, etc can a pain, especially when the people that wrote the stuff originally no longer work at the company. Make cleanup mandatory and as easy as possible.

There's a lot more, but I'm tired now. A/B testing is complex. There are lots of resources out there, though. Look for white papers on the subject, they're surprisingly approachable. Example from Microsoft: https://exp-platform.com/Documents/2017-08%20KDDMetricInterp...

Re: Google Optimize now free for everyone

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In order to be useful, you probably want to see AB tests reaching a conclusion in under 30 days. I'd say for a conversion rate goal, this is going to be when you have around 100k visitors a month. There are a few variables to consider - What goal would you like to AB test? Conversion rate is an end-of-funnel goal that needs a lot of traffic, you can use upper funnel goals like product views, add to bag etc to get qui…

Google Optimize offers MAB testing, which is awesome. Personally, I don't see it as a "when do results become reliable" problem -- it's a "what is the cost of a false positive, false negative, or 'do nothing' decision?"

Multi Armed bandit tests need even more traffic, as there are more variations being tested. I think you have to be careful with false positives in AB testing - drawing conclusions too fast can nullify it's usefulness.

Re: Google Optimize now free for everyone

#37
post #16
post #2

"Published Mar 30, 2017" (I'm not complaining–it's interesting and I'll give it a try. But it's not brand new)

Where is the requirement that we only see "brand-new" stuff on HN?

There is no such requirement, and I thought I was clear that I appreciated the post, and was merely trying to add the information.

Also: the headline has "now" in it. It's not the end of the world, but I've seen correction notes on NYT etc articles for far smaller matters. It's just a general principle that true information > false information.

Re: Google Optimize now free for everyone

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google sees you spent more time on the site (i.e. wasted scrolling) and thinks you were more 'engaged.' That seems specious. By that reasoning we could predict long form articles would triumph over short ones, but that doesn't bear out. It seems just as plausible that there's a population of readers that do like those terrible rambling stories and tend to be more loyal to a site if they do, vs a large population wh…

No one scrolls to the end of a long form article to get a recipe. Instead, they just close the tab and say "too long; didn't read." Your other point are good though.

> No one scrolls to the end of a long form article to get a recipe.

I highly doubt this is true. Scrolling to the bottom of a page is a very low cost to pay for a recipe.

Re: Google Optimize now free for everyone

#40

"Optimizing" UI for session length and clicks is the same thing as finding the local maxima of bad, right?

My user experience has continually depreciated on google and most websites the last few years.

Gradient Decent aims to please the average consumer, which often is not what is in-demand in the market place.

Had Henry Ford used ML he would've invented a faster horse.

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