Panasonic to move Europe headquarters from UK to Amsterdam • Hacker News Board

Re: Panasonic to move Europe headquarters from UK to Amsterdam

#41

Post by mkingston » Sun, Sep 02, 2018, 1:32 PM UTC

atmosx wrote: post #39

matthewmacleod wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this is a nonsense absolutist standpoint. Britain held a referendum - one which probably shouldn’t have been held as it was, but it’s too late to hand-wring about that now. But the way in which the outcome is being executed is absolutey shameful and there are a number of things which could be done: - the referendum outcome could be fulfilled by formally withdrawing from the EU while retaining most of the machiner…

If having another referendum was an option, I assure you, the PM would have held not one but fifteen by now. The moment you put into question the foundation of the democratic process, the situation will become completely unmanageable by the establishment.

Interesting viewpoint. I had considered a second referendum politically impossible in the sense of acceptance by the polity. Not in the sense of democratically existentially impossible.

But it seems (maybe this is some sort of positivity bias on my part) a second referendum is becoming more politically acceptable in both aforementioned senses. Though it'd be nice, if that never happens, if "someone" would fall on their sword for a second referendum, as really I think that's the only really democratic way forward.

Re: Panasonic to move Europe headquarters from UK to Amsterdam

#42

Post by branchless » Sun, Sep 02, 2018, 1:36 PM UTC

bdz wrote: post #13

https://www.businessleader.co.uk/from-london-to-amsterdam-pa... >Up to 20 people could be affected out of a staff of 30 So it's just a ghost office for tax purposes.

Good old UK! Treasure Islands: http://treasureislands.org/

So this company does real work in another country, where it should pay all it's taxes to help with the infra they consume there, and instead they pay less via the UK. All that extra is captured by a small elite in the UK. Everybody loses because the UK has totally lost control of the finance criminals.

Re: Panasonic to move Europe headquarters from UK to Amsterdam

#43

Post by branchless » Sun, Sep 02, 2018, 1:37 PM UTC

digitalengineer wrote: post #7

“In the case of Panasonic, it’s concerned that if the U.K. gets designated a tax-haven by Japan it could be saddled with back taxes back home. So moving to stay regionally headquartered within the European Union removes that risk.” . Eh? Obama called he Netherlands a tax haven as well. Wikipedia: “The Netherlands has been known internationally, since at least the 1970s, as a tax haven”. Source: https://en.m.wikipedia…

This would bury the UK alive. It's a tax haven. Designate it as such, refuse to trade with them unless they kill off The City, which is a parasite feeding off the world.

Re: Panasonic to move Europe headquarters from UK to Amsterdam

#44

Post by kyriakos » Sun, Sep 02, 2018, 3:20 PM UTC

matthewmacleod wrote: post #28

coldtea wrote: post #12

Which is neither here, not there. Companies are opportunistic and will go wherever makes them more money, has less tax, and laxer laws. That why tons of factories, support, and even development jobs moved out of Europe and US and into third world countries with el cheapo wages and laws accommodating sweatshop practices. In this case, it's because of easier import/export procedures and bureaucracy for selling to the r…

Companies are unlikely to flock back to the UK is it has expensive trade barriers with the rest of the European market, regardless of the “tax deals” which are cut.

Precisely, companies want free access to eu market, not just geographical presence in Europe, therefore UK will only make sense for UK market once brexit is complete.

Re: Panasonic to move Europe headquarters from UK to Amsterdam

#45

Post by qbrass » Sun, Sep 02, 2018, 6:53 PM UTC

digitalengineer wrote: post #7

“In the case of Panasonic, it’s concerned that if the U.K. gets designated a tax-haven by Japan it could be saddled with back taxes back home. So moving to stay regionally headquartered within the European Union removes that risk.” . Eh? Obama called he Netherlands a tax haven as well. Wikipedia: “The Netherlands has been known internationally, since at least the 1970s, as a tax haven”. Source: https://en.m.wikipedia…

The Netherlands may be considered a tax haven colloquially, but they're not blacklisted as one.

Re: Panasonic to move Europe headquarters from UK to Amsterdam

#46

Post by atmosx » Sun, Sep 02, 2018, 10:12 PM UTC

mkingston wrote: post #41

atmosx wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If having another referendum was an option, I assure you, the PM would have held not one but fifteen by now. The moment you put into question the foundation of the democratic process, the situation will become completely unmanageable by the establishment.

Interesting viewpoint. I had considered a second referendum politically impossible in the sense of acceptance by the polity. Not in the sense of democratically existentially impossible. But it seems (maybe this is some sort of positivity bias on my part) a second referendum is becoming more politically acceptable in both aforementioned senses. Though it'd be nice, if that never happens, if "someone" would fall on the…

> I had considered a second referendum politically impossible in the sense of acceptance by the polity.

I agree in principle. That is what should be.

I believe that we live in dangerous times. The political centre (e.g. labour & tories in the UK) is in dire straits in Europe and the US. Any action that puts strain into the democratic process, I'm afraid will be in advantage of the misanthropic, xenophobic warmongering groups. I'm afraid a new referendum might catapult the UKIP from ~2% to 5% or 10% turning it, much like the AfD, the third political power in the UK. Might sound a bit out of touch now, but historically, will not be the first time something like that happens in a country. What fuels these changes is the delegitimisation of existing democratic processes and organisations by those in position of power.

Democracy is a fragile flower. Takes months, sometimes years to grow but seconds to destroy.

Re: Panasonic to move Europe headquarters from UK to Amsterdam

#47

Post by coldtea » Mon, Sep 03, 2018, 9:31 AM UTC

Latty wrote: post #27

coldtea wrote: post #12

Which is neither here, not there. Companies are opportunistic and will go wherever makes them more money, has less tax, and laxer laws. That why tons of factories, support, and even development jobs moved out of Europe and US and into third world countries with el cheapo wages and laws accommodating sweatshop practices. In this case, it's because of easier import/export procedures and bureaucracy for selling to the r…

So you are saying we can get the companies back paying even less tax? Why are you presenting this like it's a good thing?

It's better being there with "less tax" than not being there at all. Many countries have benefited strongly from being tax havens, either for companies to having their accounting HQs there, or for black money to sit safely and clean itself -- including countries like Singapore, Switzerland and Luxembourg.

Heck, Britain itself has a lot of that already:

https://www.politico.eu/article/britain-as-a-tax-haven-it-al...

Re: Panasonic to move Europe headquarters from UK to Amsterdam

#48

Post by Latty » Mon, Sep 03, 2018, 10:45 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #47

Latty wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are saying we can get the companies back paying even less tax? Why are you presenting this like it's a good thing?

It's better being there with "less tax" than not being there at all. Many countries have benefited strongly from being tax havens, either for companies to having their accounting HQs there, or for black money to sit safely and clean itself -- including countries like Singapore, Switzerland and Luxembourg. Heck, Britain itself has a lot of that already: https://www.politico.eu/article/britain-as-a-tax-haven-it-al...

Or we could have stayed in the EU rather than just aiming to try and lead a race to the bottom where the public gains nothing from companies that use our infrastructure, market and people.

Re: Panasonic to move Europe headquarters from UK to Amsterdam

#49

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Sep 04, 2018, 9:40 AM UTC

listenallyall wrote: post #38

la_oveja wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A democratic referendum can be rigged by the emotions ruling at the moment of said referendum. You'd think if it would be repeated it would get the same outcome?

"rigged by emotions" New voting requirement-- before entering the booth, must provide proof you are entirely devoid of all emotions whatsoever.

[deleted]

Re: Panasonic to move Europe headquarters from UK to Amsterdam

#50

Post by la_oveja » Tue, Sep 04, 2018, 9:43 AM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #21

la_oveja wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A democratic referendum can be rigged by the emotions ruling at the moment of said referendum. You'd think if it would be repeated it would get the same outcome?

So let's have people who know our best interests and are not "rigged" themselves decide for us?

Well, in my opinion the "people who know our best interests" are the ones who sold Brexit as the new solution for everything, skipping the true nature of it.